John Kettler Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I clicked the link in the ROW V thread to look at your scenario descriptions and was intrigued by Mamayev Kurgan, having just reread Geoffrey Jukes's book titled STALINGRAD. Couldn't help noticing, though, how the descriptive text and the screenshot didn't track. For a hill blasted by so much fire it stripped away all the grass and whatnot, there seems to be a) quite a bit of grass visible and way too few craters given the enormous volume of fire poured into the area--by both sides. Is the screenshot by any chance from an earlier build? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 The screenie you see when you go to the great website set up by Fredkors was taken by him, gratis, but I don't know which if any MOD's He uses. The Open Ground in CMBB is typically rendered as green. Not quite sure what you're suggesting here John... It needs more craters? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 This was the Aerial Photo I was working from displaying a liberal amount of craters but not total saturation in September 1942 when the scenario is based. I think there's a few trees around the outskirts too. I would imagine after 130 days of shelling there would be no grass on the hill, as stated in several written sources. [ January 13, 2006, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Richie ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 You shouldn't pay much attention, Richie, the map looks great. John should know better than to suggest that a "dirt" hill can be portrayed in CMBB short of modding open ground terrain .bmps. Pretty irrelevant stuff. Out of curiousity, using your screenshot as a guide, where would the famous Motherland statue be situated today? Point of order, though - there would be grass on the hill, it would just be invisible underneath all the ejecta thrown up with the crater-producing projectiles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Thanks Michael, I believe the statue is where the title is in the first screenie from the game and in the overhead photo it should be central to the white area portrayed. Apparantly it took one full year for grass to show on the crest again. They are still uncovering bone fragments and war relics today. Just a note with craters, the scenario editor lets you add so many, eventually you reach a point where you start clicking near craters while you're adding them and they start disappearing instead... The map itself has some abrupt elevation changes about the crest and hill in general that also add to the crater like effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 You can also reach a point where too many craters will slow down the game, as evidenced by "To the Volga". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yeah, that and 'smoke' are always a winning combination 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Richie, I appreciate the info and the somewhat hard to interpret overhead shot. Do you have a link to a bigger version, please? Yes, I was expecting more craters, and yes, I did expect to see raw earth. Per MD's rather snotty dismissive comment, though, I guess that wasn't easily doable. I've played CMBB only a little and done but the most rudimentary experimentation with the map editor, so will take your word on the difficulties of crater siting. Nothing I said, though, should be construed as an attack on your scenario, which I haven't played. I have, though, as a ROW V AAR judge, read a stack of AARs for some of your other scenarios, from which it's abundantly clear that you know how to put together great scenarios. Was only commenting on what I saw as a disconnect between the written scenario description for Mamayev Kurgan and the screenshot. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 The above image has been resized for your convenience My screenie looks east BTW, the top of the photo is to the west, note the late afternoon sun causing heavy shadows. No offence taken. I'm always happy to answer questions about my scenarios. Oddly enough when I put it together I thought someone might comment on too many craters... The scenario was put together for The Stalingrad Campaign I run over at We Band Of Brothers. It's meant to, along with all the bonus scenarios, give the 38 players an historical insight into other areas of the Stalingrad battle rather than just the factory fighting they are undergoing. The briefing itself is aimed at giving them 'the bigger picture' as a lot of them seem not to have read that much about the battle itself. A fun but maniacal history lesson if you will. [ January 13, 2006, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Richie ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Richie, The resized photo helps. Thanks! It looks as though there are rows of buildings (crypts? bunkers?) on Mamayev Kurgan perpendicular to what appear to be roads running through it. Whatever they are, they're manmade and rectilinear. Do you know what they are, based on imagery and/or period maps? If they're as substantial as they appear to be, why aren't they depicted on your game map? Your, er, tutorial sounds positively diabolical! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I don't know what they are. I suspect they may be garden beds or were ponds. Text I've read describes the hill as a park where lovers used to stroll prior to the war. Modern photos show ponds and garden beds. If they were buildings I believe they would cast a larger shadow with the extreme angle of the sun. You can also see a couple of craters altering their shape. The smaller square / rectangular shapes are clearly buildings, you can make out the shape of the roof on several of them. These I've included in my scenario. Where the larger flatter dark areas are (garden beds or ponds) I've tried to include rough terrain. I don't think they would cause any further hinderance or create any greater cover or obstruction to infantry than that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Richie, Interesting explanation and well argued to boot. When can we sign you up as an Overhead Imagery Analyst? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hehe, thanks mate... So much to do... so little time... I spent hours staring at that pic trying to work it all out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Richie, Too bad we couldn't get you a stereo pair! BTW, did you know that despite their fabulous optics, the Germans did not use stereo photography during the War? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I'm not actually sure about that. What I have done is rework the scenario and have uploaded it to The Scenario Depot. Mamayev Kurgan, Stalingrad I have not altered the map. I'm not sure I need to. What I have done is extended the play and added historical troop reinforcements to give a greater feel of the combat that took place. When I initially designed this scenario I had to remove some aspects after playtesting to make it suitable to be used as a bonus scenario in The Stalingrad Campaign. You John, have undoubtably inspired me to bring forth the 'directors cut' if I may... In all it's horror! (A BIG thanks to Frekors for hosting the Stalingrad Campaign Webpage) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 From the link in the CMBB forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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