Shaka of Carthage Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Quite a few people complain because there is perceived balance towards the Axis. One of the complaints is that the Axis player knows where the Allied player units start off... ie Poland and France. As an alternative, has anyone considered instead of a "bid" amount, how about just having the Allied player move first? Bid requires a change thru the campaign editor. So doing the same for Allied first is no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Shaka, It would be interesting to let Poland go first, but not UK and France. If the 2 major allies go first the Germans would be extremely hard pressed with French coming out of the Maginot while the Germans have yet to move in Poland, UK setting up to sink the German Fleets as they attack Denmark and the possiblity of an early Dutch Gambit with no chance for the Germans to counter. For the Germans, Poland would drag out with the transfer of troops west and the invasion of Denmark would have to be delayed till either Poland taken or the western front is stabilized. The extra mpps for both France at 115 and UK at 155 (with Canada) would be very benefical to allied war funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Twiddle In a way, everything you say illustrates my point. Instead of paying a bid of 100 (or whatever amount), just let the Allies move first. Poland ... we agree upon. France ... Germany already has a screen of troops on the border with France. If the French invade Germany, they have to grap a city, otherwise the supply problems force thier offensive to stall. Maybe for a turn or so, but even with a couple of units from Poland, those French units are toast. Now France has nothing left to defend itself with. UK ... Ok, so the Germans get no freebie attacks on Denmark. Assuming the UK naval will oppose, the Germans just have to make sure they invade Denmark with air cover and naval. Early Dutch Gambit... French can already do that by the threat of DOW on Low Countries on Allied Turn 2, Germany has to operate troops from Poland front anyway so it can DOW on Low Countries on Turn 2. Early German DOW on Low Countries without sufficient troops, just results in the French reaching the defensive river line anyway. And the extra MPP's that France and UK get are still less than a "100 bid", since the MPP's above 100 still don't make up for the 100 that USSR doesn't get. Seems like a viable alternative to me. [ February 10, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Shaka, we should try it out....what is the worst that can happen? It does not work.....needs a tweak or maybe it is good. Let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 "Early Dutch Gambit... French can already do that by the threat of DOW on Low Countries on Allied Turn 2, Germany has to operate troops from Poland front anyway so it can DOW on Low Countries on Turn 2". This can be done on turn one by the French. I've seen it done, I've done it myself. It leaves a plane on the maginot line, but still works. Key for Axis is to punish France after they do it. Axis can't do this on turn 1, only on turn 2. Thus if France goes first, game over, Allies win. Plus Shaka, you think the Allies are stronger or at least equal anyways. (I don't agree or disagree on this one, haven't played enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalmatiaPartisan Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 disagree its the germans who had initiative in the begging of the war if U forgot- this is historicly based game-at least in the beggining-lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 KDG Yes, I do think that overall the Allies are stronger than the Axis. Thats why, even for the Ladder games, I don't really bid. I'll take whatever side the other person doesn't want. Hmmm... France doing a DOW on turn 1? And they can capture Low Countries turn 1? I've never seen that, but I believe you. Ahhhh... you probably have to take an Army from the northermost Maginot line? Do I understand you correctly? You are saying that if the French move first, and they capture the Low Countries (turn 1), the game is over? Please confirm if you feel this is true. No matter what France does, it will fall. Its just a matter of when and how much the Axis have to pay for it. Twiddle I'm willing to try it out. But I think others should try it, otherwise it may be "biased" in the eyes of others. What I would really like to try is this AND the "Nationality" mods I suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I believe the game would be over if the French went first and then did the Dutch gambit on the first turn. Yes you take an army from the top of the line, move the other two armies up, and from Malta operate a plane into the bottom of the maginot line. If Germany goes first, they can have some planes and a couple armies to punish that plane, possibly elimanating it. With France going first, I don't think they could. May have to try a game vs myself and see. For an interesting game, don't use the editor, Germany collects its MRPs at the end of its turn, but doesn't get to move any of its units. Then the allies move first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 DalmatiaPartisan Interesting point, that letting the Allies move first removes the "initative" from the Axis. Maybe we should think of this as a "what if". Allies find out about the Molotov-Rubxxx(?) Pact and react first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piumarcobaleno Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Maybe is Molotov-Ribbentrop the name you are looking for, Shaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Originally posted by Shaka of Carthage: Rubxxx( LMAO i think i got email from that site once rubXXX.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 Finally!!!! Someone who can appreciate my humor. Did you see the one about the AI not complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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