Kuniworth Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 An overlooked part of SC is the gaining ground mechanism. SC is a unique game in the aspect that units not only captures hexes it moves through but also hexes around. This means that your units will be able to capture more ground if you have friendly units clear the way by gaining terrain. Units will then move through friendly area and have extra action points left to move further. This is vital in certain areas, for example the Odessa-Bucharest area. If army/corps units captured vital ground, panzers can blitz and capture cities fast. As I see it panzers should therefore not be used to gain initial ground(as traditional blitzkrieg to certain degree says) instead it should be used entirely in a exploitation-role. [ March 25, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 Oh and this is of course as vital in close combat action like in France. This is the diffrence some times if you get 2-3 or maybe 4 shots at an enemy unit. Actually this may very well break or win the attack. Often players dont understand this key mechanism.... [ March 25, 2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disorder Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 agree wholeheartedly! a.i. seems to have it down better than i do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 Yep I´ve had not quite fully understood the power of this until just some weeks ago. I ran some tests and the result is quite stunning. My combat results and games have improved a lot thx to this. I will try to examine this further and post more of my conclusions. [ March 25, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Kuni Good thread, a lot of times I secure ground with corps then move them away from the target hex and conduct the actual attack with armor or armies. This isn't always possible, but it's better to risk a corp in holding ground than the more valuable armor and army units. Also, if the corps are lost the attacking units will usually still be in place and weakened (unless your adversary brings his own corps in to serve as a defensive buffer) and you can bring your more powerful units up at that point to destroy the weakened attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorskii Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 You guys are referring to capturing a hex that has 2 enemy zones of control in it right? Gorskii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 What you guys are looking for is a minor detail Hubert left out of the manual but discussed a while back. This really should be added to the User Manual Updates and Errata one of these days. This was also probably left out in the manual text, but there is a +1 action point penalty for river hexes that you do not control. Once it's in your control it's assumed you control or have built bridges across it and regular action movement points apply. And the AI does tend to have this down pretty well, better than I do sometimes. I was particularly impressed in one game when the AI attacked and completely surrounded Odessa on the first turn. That was slick. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Thx Bill for this insight, but its not only around rivers that this matters. Thats what makes this so damn powerful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Right. Gorskii mentioned the other case. There are no unit ZOCs in SC, but a hex between two enemy units will also have a +1 AP penalty until you control it. Or something like that. I think those are the only two exceptions to normal movement rates - moving across rivers and moving between enemy units. Could there be others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 OK, I found the quote I was thinking about: if you do try and pass through two adjacent enemy units that does increase the Movement Cost by +1 point. +1 AP cost or movement cost mean the same thing. So, this undocumented penalty applies to crossing enemy controlled rivers and entering enemy controlled hexes between two adjacent units. Moving a friendly unit into such hexes to gain control and soak up the penalty allows follow-on units to move without penalty. The technique to use here is to move units from the rear first, and then allow forward units to have maximum movement. If you do it the other way around you won't gain much benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 29, 2003 Author Share Posted March 29, 2003 good work Bill...this is great info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorskii Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 We still do not have the full effects figured out. I was looking at Barbarosa. Put a tank 1 hex south of Konigsburg. If you move North East, You will move through 2 river hexes, 2 open hexes, and finally 1 hex with an enemy tank in it. The river hexes have 2 Russian units exerting ZOC on them. No matter what repositioning I tried over the course of about 5 turns, I couldn't move more than 3 hexes Northeast. If I swing North after the river, I can move 5 hexes. Until you kill both Russain units and remove the Russian tank, you can't move 5 hexes north east. Puzzling :confused: Gorskii [ March 29, 2003, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: gorskii ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 29, 2003 Author Share Posted March 29, 2003 Yes your absolutely right Goorskii. THe GG theory need a lot of examination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 Hmmm, I assume the +1 AP penalty for moving between two units remains in effect as long as one of the two units is present. That would be consistent with ZOC rules with other games. Summarizing the various movement penalties: +1 MC for river hexes until controlled (bridges) +1 MC for moving between two enemy units -1 AP for unit supply <= 5 and > 0 1/2 AP for unit supply 0 This should cover everything. Any other surprises out there? Funny how we've been playing this game for what, almost 9 months, and we're still theorizing about movement rules. Ever play a boardgame that way?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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