Logan Hartke Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I'm reposting my description from "New Campaign Suggestions" here with a few changes, so if you already read it there, be warned. 1945 Alternate WWII/Delayed WWII. Hitler has finally gotten approval of the Poland attack by his admirals and generals. They are sufficiently convinced of Germany's superiority in the land, sea, and air. Germany, obviously, has made great strides in Gun Laying Radar, Rockets, Advanced Subs, Jet Aircraft Research, and Anti-Aircraft Radar researches, but are still very much be lacking in Long-Range Aircraft, Heavy Bombers, Industrial Technology, Anti-Tank, and (surprisingly to most) Heavy Tank research. German tanks have been on the slow track compared to their Soviet and French counterparts in the long run. Britain, believing that she had control of the seas, has relatively low naval research, but high levels in all aircraft fields (Jet Aircraft, Heavy Bombers, and Long-Range Aircraft). All tank and anti-tank research levels are pitifully low, but Anti-Aircraft Radar is level 5. Russia, spurred by the power-hungry Stalin, who, for those of you that didn't know this, already had plans in the making for an invasion of Germany in the mid- to late-forties, has incredibly high levels of research in all ground-based fields of weaponry and industry (i.e. Anti-tank, Heavy Tank, Rockets, and Industrial Technology). Russia also has moderate levels of Jet Fighter research, but not much else in any other field. Russia, however, has have taken control of Finland and is building up for an invasion of Turkey, Iraq, the Balkan states, and the Scandanavian countries. Many Finnish soldiers have escaped across the border to Sweden and Norway, knowing that the invasion of these two countries is imminent. They gained much experience, fighting advancing Soviet troops all the way to the border. Similarly, Soviet troops learned many lessons against the Finns during the campaign. France has surprisingly high levels of Gun Laying Radar, Jet Fighter, Anti-tank, and Heavy Tank research. For those of you that didn't know, France had far more powerful tanks on the drawing board than Germany had ever dreamed of when she was invaded in 1940, but these plans remained just that. Some plans, however, were built after the war and remain in service today. Designs such as the ARL-44, AMX-13, and the Panhard EBR all had their very advanced and powerful designs rooted in 1940 plans (the EBR was even at mock-up stage in 1940). She would also has a VERY large standing army on the German border with VERY high entrenchment levels, since the Maginot Line is now equipped and completed in its entirety, but it consists almost entirely of infantry armies with very few tanks spread throughout. Her navy would be formidable, yet is still conquerable by the Italians. Industrial Technology is at nil since the French socialist factories have been a military and economic disaster since their inception. The Italians, as usual would have low tech levels in most fields, but 3's in most naval and aerial fields. Like France, a goose egg in the Industrial Technology category would be accurate. All the superpowers are aligned the same way, but all have FAR more troops and equipment. Soviet troop concentrations in ALL categories are phenomenally higher with troops poised at the borders of most of its neighbors, ready for invasion. Germany has greater naval strength to Britain with an emphasis on advanced subs (Type XXI) and advanced superbattleships (Schlachtschiff H). The Kriegsmarine has two carriers as well. Italy has a huge force aimed at all areas of the Med. The USSR joins immdediately, ready for any excuse to overrun its neighbors, but America recently finished a long war with Japan, pushing the Japanese back to Tokyo unaided (the Japanese decided not declare war on the UK and the USSR saw no reason to intervene until near the end, where she declared war, took what areas of Manchuria she wanted with minimal resistance and stopped) and losing nearly a million men along the way in their costly invasion of Japan. The US is sick of war and casualties and will take no part in this European conflict. Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Sweden, and Norway start off as Axis allies, feeling instantly threatened by Soviet expansionism. Denmark, and Spain also allied Germany from the start mainly due to the "bandwagon effect." Franco also expects a "piece of the pie" when the war is all over. Germany, having known that she'll start the war soon, aids these countries by sending significant amounts of planes and some personnel to augment her allies' forces. Germany also decided to send her fleet over to America on a "good will cruise" with every intention of declaring war when they reached the mid-Atlantic, thereby placing them in them in the middle of the Atlantic, ready to control the waves and not allowing themselves to be bottled in. The UK, however, in not naive, and has her fleet trailing them, ready to pounce if they try anything fancy. Yugoslavia had a revolution 1943, led by Tito and supported by the USSR. Stalin has secured his tentative support in the upcoming war, but Tito refuses to operate as an attached command under the Red Army. Overall, I would expect the war to play out much like a WWI where Russia would have been prepared and Italy would have remained allied with Germany. If the war goes like I think it should, Italy will take almost complete control of the Med within a year. Germany will destroy the RN fairly quickly, roll through the Low Countries and Poland and be successfully attacking France with considerable Italian support. Surprisingly, the Axis will likely control the waves for most of this scenario. German V2 rockets will likely shower her enemies with destructive firepower. All is not well for the Axis, however. The USSR is proving to be better-prepared than expected. Germany will have to rapidly try to hold back the Red Army while still attempting to deliver a knock-out blow to France. The USSR will be trying to drive down into Africa through Iraq. Mother Russia will likely wrest control of Scandanavia within the first year or two, endangering the German control of the High Seas. She will likely be making headway in Turkey, longing to sink her teeth into the Med through the Bosporus, but the "Glorious Yavuz" stands defiantly in her way. While the Kriegsmarine might have eliminated the Royal Navy, the British long range heavy bombers are on the prowl and looking for revenge. Operating from Great Britain and Soviet bases on the Baltic and the Med, her massive bomber fleet will likely sweep the seas of Axis ships within 2-3 years if not sooner. The seas will become a barren graveyard, no Axis ship venturing out of range of considerable German Jet fighter support (yet the lack of tech in long-range fighters will prevent any ships from going far). The Axis will likely be fighting a losing battle that will be decided in France and Poland. Although she'll have many allies, the poorly-equipped minor nations will be little more than experience for the Soviet war machine, gobbling up armies left and right. Germany's only chance is to set up on wall on her eastern border, then decimate the Red Army with the Luftwaffe in a veritable meat grinder (the Red Air Force being lacking in both aircraft numbers and jet technology). If the French can hold out (which they shouldn't be able to do), they can wait for British air power to arrive then allow the Germans to bash their head in on French defensive networks while the Anglo Airmen fly cover for them. If the Western Allies play it safe and stem the German land forces, yet keep from squandering the considerable Red Army early on, they should win without much difficulty (although, at first, the naval situation will appear depressing and hopeless). By contrast, the German player has to be bold, quick, and decisive in attacking in the West, yet without too much of a manpower expenditure. Use whatever meager ground forces that are at hand in the East and delay the Soviets as long as possible, whenever possible. Airpower will be decisive in the East, so don't throw it away in the West, yet keep enough in the West to keep the RAF from doing the same thing to the Heer as the Luftwaffe plans to do to the Reds. If balanced well enough, this would be a complex, yet very fun scenario with many new and inventive strategies. If you want to playtest it, please send an e-mail to me at comradeloganov@aol.com and let me know. I'll send it to you. Please, good players from the top ten would be appreciated. If AARs could be made when the game is done, that would be great. I just want to know what issues need addressed before I ask for it to be put up on SCHQ. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Logan Sounds interesting and you've got a lot of good ideas here. Presumably most of the old autocracies have been displaced by internal instability. Good Luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 Do you want to playtest it against somebody else? Or maybe I should ask you this way... Would you? Maybe you could convince some of the other players on your level to playtest it, too. Two or three games is all that would likely be needed to test its balance and playability. House rules are to be decided by the players. I couldn't think of any off hand. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 The reason I held back on that part is I've been pretty well swamped in PBEM games and didn't feel I could make moves and respond quickly enough to be fair to my opponent. I'm not one of the better players but, if you don't mind having to wait a couple of days between moves -- I try to hit each pbem in order, which normally takes two days -- I'd be happy to play it against you and offer input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 That's okay. Hopefully I can interest a few other people in it. I don't want to swamp you even more. It's up to you. I've played it against the computer a couple times just to ensure that there are no horrible balance errors and I've not found any. I'm just hoping that a few other players with more experience than I have will test it out and tell me what they think of it. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Thanks for being considerate, to be honest I don't think another pbem would be possible till I finish some of the ones currently being played. I'd be glad to run it through the scenario editor and spend a few hours trying to find something I think might be unsound, a lot of times it helps to have someone other than yourself doing this as they almost certainly see it from a different perspective. I've often done that with my own ideas and have gotten a lot of good input that way. johnofjersey@AOL.com Looking forward to seeing it. [ August 01, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 Check your e-mail, it should be there. Thanks again, JerseyJohn! Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 My pleasure, Logan. Spent the last few minutes looking at it and will have more time for that later. A first impression is I really like it, guaranteed action right from the start! The AI may even be able to play the Allies pretty credibly in this one -- I'll give that a shot also. I took a couple of notes but will hold off till I've seen more of it, then I'll give you my thoughts in an e-mail, should take a few days. Great Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I would like to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narayan Sengupta Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Logan, I'm not having much luck with burning a CD today either. Can you post it online someplace along with a link so that I can grab it? Thanks, Narayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Like where? Where would I upload it? I have no website. If some one here could do it, it might be possible. I could e-mail it to them, then they could put it on their website, but I don't think that I can do it. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Are Yugoslovia and Finland suppost to surrender on Allied turn 1? It gives the U.S.S.R a huge plunder boost for seemingly no reason. Poland isn't much of a battle and fall's very very quickly, I was able to destroy every polish unit, besides 1 corps that had 4 str. left, and took warsaw on turn 1. Belgum also goes very quickly, 1 turn as expected, and France is busted open for the Panzers to trap the French armies in the Magniot while other forces attack Paris, This is esp. easy since the Italian and Spanish starting position are in very vulnerable spots for the french, and France can expect to lose it's south Air Fleet on turn one or two. Also, the French and British Fleets are open for a turn one strike onto them in port by land forces, leaving them around 4 str. Very hurtful in the early turns where the naval battle is decieceve. I feel the opening turns are balanced fairly well, but I haven't gotten the sense of the huge Russin threat you were speaking of "gobbling up armies" With that many tanks, planes, and just plain troops, the German's do a very considerable amount of early damage to the Red Army if it exposes it's tanks to the Panzers in Poland on turn 2. I was able to decimate no less then 4 Red tank groups, numerous armies destroyed or surrounded, airfleets smashed down to 2 or 3 str. Etc. However, the Russians have a huge MPP backing, about 1300 with the Finland and Yugo plunder, + production. They could use this to blunt the German spearhead and draw them into the massive corps. buying attrition war that has become familer for victory in Russia. The British bombers seem a bit much, perhaps the Royal Navy should be given 1 more tech point or a couple more ships so that the bombers aren't needed to balance the German Fleet. After they decimate everything north of Spain in the water, they are extremely powerful and numerous for bombing the european mainland, and just seem a little to strong. Maybe a step down in the tech, or atleast long range. That's all I have for now. I love the game so far, not disapointed with the fights in France and Poland, and Russia looks like it's going to be a blood bath for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Well, Night, that's about how it's been playing out for me on the first few turns. I think that the British bombers are a very interesting wild card. They are needed since German subs are so advanced and tend to dive +50% of the time. Also, how did you like the North Sea brawl against the Hindenburg and her sister ship? Anyway, it's going according to plan. It's easy against the computer no matter which side you play, but if you play against a human, it should be pretty well balanced. A human player might pull those level-5 French Armies back to Paris and sit for a while. Also, a human player should play the Russians VERY aggressively. Those 50 or so (okay, maybe not quite that many) tank armies are there for a reason. The early plunders were for two reasons. Firstly, they were the only way to make Yugo and Finland Russian and they are there to offset the cost of all the Russian operating moves. A good human player should attack headlong into the German forces, chewing up as many German armies as possible, then use the armies that were operated in for a blocker and the next wave. Also, a good allied player should try to get Turkey in the first 10 or so rounds. It makes a world of a difference. Play the game as the Allies and you might find it pretty well balanced. I'm playing as the allies right now and I'll easily make VE-day by 1942. To make it a bit more challenging as the Germans, activate the USA. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Sure, I'll test it Logan. winnieisback@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Now that I've sent it to at least four people, someone needs to find someone else and play a TCP/IP game. I'm going to be gone today, so I can't. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narayan Sengupta Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Logan, Please see my e-maijl from earlier this afternoon. But overall, looking at it through the editor, it looked really good. What Night said about Finland and Yugoslavia can only be rectified by starting over from scratch - a major amount of work, or finding some way to rationalize it. I had the same problem on my WWI campaign because I initially activated Poland against Germany, but then later removed all of the Polish units and divied up Poland between USSR and Germany. The editor doesn't allow de-activation, of course, which means that I've had to scrap the campaign and start all over. Narayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Same here. Campaigns that involve complex national alliances and multiple activations are a nightmare to alter later on. After having my first and most complex effort at Otto's for several months, Iron Ranger went through it pretty carefully and found a few simple problems that are driving me crazy in trying to correct. In the end I'll probably need to take it apart, write out which things I want to keep, and set the whole thing up again from scratch -- including the alteration of Russia's boundaries to fit the 1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. Understandably, I've since shifted toward simpler situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 I did read the e-mail. Do you want me to reply to the e-mail with an e-mail of my own or just reply on here? Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Okay guys, I'm starting from scratch. It really won't be ALL that hard to do. It's just the Fall Weiss campaign with a lot more units. I just have a few questions, though. What do you want me to do with Greece? Currently it's neutral, but I was thinking about making it allied and under the control of the Soviets (representing a successful Communist coup) or the Brits (representing their normal government). Also, should I leave Portugal neutral? I think I should, but I am forced to realize that opinions other than mine exist in the world. Should I give Poland more units to represent them making a larger army between 1939 and 1945? Lastly, should I make Poland's territory Soviet so that they can more easily transfer units? Logan Hartke [ August 03, 2003, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Logan Hartke ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Leave greece and port. Poland wouldn't hurt from having an extra corps or two, but let's not go crazy. It is poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narayan Sengupta Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Logan, Regarding reply to my e-mail: whatever you prefer! Regarding Portugal and Greece, you may wish to leave them unactivated until the campaign has been played several times. Then they can be used for balance. But if you activate them, but later change your mind, then... Narayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 Okay, folks, the final version is done. I've not fallen off the face of the Earth, I was just busy with it or away from home, so I didn't have the time to answer all the postings and e-mails that I got from those who were interested. I'd like to thank everyone who has given any input and/or feedback on the project. I will e-mail my revised campaign to everyone that I e-mailed the first one to within the day. Thanks again to everyone! Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 Oh, and by "final version," I'm not saying that I definately won't revise it further in the future, but I don't think that I'll be starting from scratch again on the same project. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 So, does anyone else want this scenario? Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 Just making sure that htis topic stays up near the top for those that are interested. I wouldn't have done it if that spammer raid had never taken place. Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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