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Yes The Administrators Are Right.


JerseyJohn
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Yes, Kuniworth is a strange character and often doing a tightrope act between staying and being booted out.

Yes, it's hard to tell whether he's a positive or negative influence.

Yes, you've got the right to say who stays and who goes.

Yes, even now there are several good Threads of his with padlocks on them, and a few not so good ones. Maybe having a thread on locked threads is a good idea -- one thing I noticed was the rarity, as a percentage, that responsible members had locked threads per total postings. Despite the tongue in cheek title I think it had a positive message, in a back door way it was to discourage bad behavior by identifying what caused locked threads.

Yes, you might ban me for saying this, but the Forum lost something, not only with his banning, but with the way it was sprung.

Yes, I still very much enjoy posting at the General Forum so I guess I better lay low here so I'll be able to post there.

Yes, I understand your position, Kuniworth is a controversial character. A lot of us are a little controversial.

Yes, Kuniworth is my friend and the friend of many of people here. I stand up for my friends. Whether you allow him back in is your decision. I'm not about to argue over it again.

Yes, your view is totally different from what I'm able to see as a fellow poster. Were I seeing things from your perspective I'd say he stirs up too much trouble. I'd probably ban him too, but I hope there's a way around it.

Yes, his glorying in locked threads was ill-advised, but most of that was as a joke.

Yes, there's no point in debating it further.

Yes, you'll lock this and I don't object to that. I had to voice these things regardless of whether they're on or off-topic.

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Well said Jersey.

I posted on Trapp's statement and I might as well post on yours before this thread is locked. For what it's worth I rather get the impression the game, forum and community has come to some sort of watershed.

Terif and Rambo no longer play in the Z-League, people seem to prefer to play non-competitive games against each other, Kuniworth has been banned, and the number of locked threads is rocketing, the moderators seem to be "padlock happy" (I know there are clearly laid out Forum Rules but they seem to be working against the forum itself). We seem to be treading water, waiting for SC2 to be released. The forum appears to be stagnating. I sincerely hope this isn't the case.

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Yes, you might ban me for saying this, but the Forum lost something, not only with his banning, but with the way it was sprung.
Couldn't agree with you more there. I said this in my last thread; I believe that I would have completely lost interest in SC and this forum a long time ago, if it weren’t for the members on this forum.

I consider a lot of you guys friends, the Mods don't understand that. Considering most of us post on this forum at least once a day, I don't see why that’s so hard to understand. For the past 3 months, we have been losing member after member and I think its because the way this forum is being run (I know I'm gonna get banned for that one).

Comrade Trapp

[ September 29, 2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Comrade Trapp ]

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CC & Comrade

Thanks both for posting here. I don't want to add anything because I honestly don't know if it will help or hurt the cause.

Comrade, if you're out because of this, and I'm not, I will be even it's unofficial.

CC It's good to have a Brit in on the Tea Party this time. ;)

[ September 29, 2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Terif and Rambo no longer play in the Z-League, people seem to prefer to play non-competitive games against each other, Kuniworth has been banned, and the number of locked threads is rocketing, the moderators seem to be "padlock happy" (I know there are clearly laid out Forum Rules but they seem to be working against the forum itself). We seem to be treading water, waiting for SC2 to be released. The forum appears to be stagnating. I sincerely hope this isn't the case.
Baxter

No one could give a better description of what is happening. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Comrade Trapp

[ September 29, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Comrade Trapp ]

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No one could give a better description of what is happening. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yes. Exactly
Cheers lads.

The strange thing is I'm trying to post this b4 the thread is locked. That shouldn't be the case, we shouldn't have to feel threatened or as if we are doing something wrong when contributing to a thread the moderators will regard as OT. I don't think it is OT, in fact it goes to the very heart of the future of this forum: is it to be a congenial, amiable meeting place for like-minded souls or is to be at the run along Draconian lines?

CC It's good to have a Brit in on the Tea Party this time.

Your welcome Jersey. Pass the ammunition! smile.gif
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Agreed 100% -- consider it passed! ;)

I've been checking back every five minutes or so to see how it happens, a little relieved and surprised to be passing back in.

It definitely should not be that way. Aside from which we aren't standing up for some desperado character, we're sticking up for someone with contributions who happens to have gathered a lot of good feelings.

Those on too elevated a plateau to get involved are welcomed to remain aloof. We obviously don't regard him as a bafoon or a trouble maker.

[ September 29, 2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Like you said in your first post Jersey, Kuniworth was a strange character, hard to get a handle on sometimes, but as the old saying goes, I may not have agreed with everything he said but I will defend his right to say it.

I too am surprised this hasn't been locked yet. Power to the People! smile.gif

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CC, it may not get locked, or at least not right away. Marting and Co. aren't oppressors, just a little quick with the padlocks at times.

If it does remain open for a day or two, long enough to be a fair sounding board on the subject, I'm sure a lot of us will have increased respect for them. I will.

Agreed on the basic issue. Much of what Kuniworth posted I could have easily done without, but I'm sure many people feel the same way about my own postings, so who's to judge?

The thing is accepting what pleases us along with what we don't necessarily care for. In baseball Kuni would be a free swinger, a guy who hits home runs but also strikes out a lot. Most real baseball fans prefer contact hitters, but it would be a bad day for the game if it suddenly banned all the free swingers.

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CC, it may not get locked, or at least not right away. Marting and Co. aren't oppressors, just a little quick with the padlocks at times.
If they are going to follow their forum rules then it will be locked quickly as it is, by the strict definition of the rules, OT. I agree with you that if the thread was allowed to run it's course as a sounding board for the issue at hand then the moderators would appear to more accomodating to the wishes of the community, without which the forum is nothing.

I'm not advocating a free-for-all where anything goes. The Lucky Elephant thing or whatever the hell his name was was completely unacceptable on any level.

But surely there must be some middle ground between spam anarchy and absolute enforcement of forum rules without regard to the contribution the poster may have made to the forum and, perhaps more importantly, the glaring fact that just about everything that can be said about SC has been said. We know there are to to be no further improvements and so all avenues of advancing the game through community feedback are now closed off.

We should be allowed some form of social interaction other than that prescribed by the forum rules i.e. that all posts must concern SC to a greater or lesser degree. This may in the long run serve to stifle the forum, the community and the potential consumer base for SC2. I'm not suggesting wildly OT threads be permitted, but merely that some latitude and leeway is exercised by the moderators in what they choose to censor.

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CC

In the year I've been posting here I've seen the Forum go from Dodge City to Anytown Anywhere.

The Dodge City days were more fun. As a matter of fact, they were a lot more fun. Sure there locked threads galore, and plenty of off topic nonsense.

Aside from this one's inevitable end, five or so of my locked threads came from that period, not because I said anything different, but because other guys came in and posted something ridiculous.

But some of the highest quality input and best ideas came from those unruly days.

Also, I've seen people come in, babble some nonsense about how childish everything was and start off as though they were God's personal gift to SC. I think I put up more posts in a week than any of those characters have posted in total, so how much attention should be paid to those who are overly concerned about a sanitized forum? Did they even buy the game?!

The people who have a committment here, who post a lot and express ideas are the customers.

It's good to attract new people but not at the expense of your core members. And for better or worse Kuniworth is / was a core member.

We had lots of what should have been core members posting here last October but I don't see many of them posting here now. As a matter of fact I can probably count them on one hand.

-- Macon.

-- -- Immer, who hasn't posted lately.

-- Sarge.

-- Myself.

-- -- CvM, who used to post regularly.

-- SeaMonkey

-- Panzer39

-- and slightly later General Rambo, Teriff, Comrad and Jim Boggs

If I listed those who have dropped out and have rarely, if ever posted since, it would run to the dozens, maybe the hundreds. I can think of two dozen without looking at any past Threads.

Cramp people and they'll go elsewhere. That's why the General Forum is so popular, almost anything goes. But what product is it representing for Battle Front?

Kuniworth is obviously on Martin's bad side. Maybe I am as well, I don't know. But I think he's been hit because of the atmosphere set by the idiots who have been spamming the place lately.

Sure, he should stop talking about Locked Threads; to me that's the only place he's really moving on thin ice. It's a bad subject but I think his positives outweigh the negatives.

As for going off topic --? That's kind of murky. When I started a Thread recently about Hitler's health and it's effect on WW II was that off topic because it didn't fit directly into SC?

As always, a lot of these things are judgement calls. If everything were kept strickly within the stated rules, either here or anywhere else, nobody could budge. If the average American were held to the letter of every Federal, State and Local Law he'd be arrested for something new every day.

[ September 29, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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It's good to attract new people but not at the expense of your core members. And for better or worse Kuniworth is / was a core member.

You've hit the nail on the head here. Kuniworth was a purchaser of SC and and a customer of Battlefront. The community and this forum is the real-world extension of the game.

In the year I've been posting here I've seen the Forum go from Dodge City to Anytown Anywhere.

The Dodge City days were more fun. As a matter of fact, they were a lot more fun. Sure there locked threads galore, and plenty of off topic nonsense.

Aside from this one's inevitable end, five or so of my locked threads came from that period, not because I said anything different, but because other guys came in and posted something ridiculous.

But some of the highest quality input and best ideas came from those unruly days.

You're right. As a lurker from way back it seems as though they were the halcyon days, everything was new and fresh.

The people who have a committment here, who post a lot and express ideas are the customers.

It's good to attract new people but not at the expense of your core members. And for better or worse Kuniworth is / was a core member.

We had lots of what should have been core members posting here last October but I don't see many of them posting here now. As a matter of fact I can probably count them on one hand.

-- Macon.

-- -- Immer, who hasn't posted lately.

-- Sarge.

-- Myself.

-- -- CvM, who used to post regularly.

-- SeaMonkey

-- Panzer39

-- and slightly later General Rambo, Teriff, Comrad and Jim Boggs

If I listed those who have dropped out and have rarely, if ever posted since, it would run to the dozens, maybe the hundreds. I can think of two dozen without looking at any past Threads

Exactly right. I've noticed this myself. Where is Immer? Disorder? Cvm? The many newbies who posted a few questions and then vanished into the ether. The forum is plainly failing to hold on to new members.

Cramp people and they'll go elsewhere. That's why the General Forum is so popular, almost anything goes. But what product is it representing for Battle Front?

Right again. I don't read the GF, too many pointless petty arguments.

But I think he's been hit because of the atmosphere set by the idiots who have been spamming the place lately
Totally agreed. Kuniworth is the victim of a clampdown, notwithstanding his controversial threads.
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I didn't realize it till just now, but in the back of my mind I've been posting with the idea that the Forum will change in October and be what it was Last October, before it started losing it.

What really gauls me, and I don't want to mention the Tags they used, is the guys who came in like they were parting the waters. Probably with big reputations from other Forums. Making pronouncements and criticisms, who made a few forgotten postings and are gone now. I always get the feeling that's always a desire to attract one of that sort of meaningless member, the type who never hang around long anyway, even if it meants driving ten real members away with all the crazy and usually uncalled for rigidity.

Who knows, maybe it's us who have our priorities screwed up in this regard? It's very possible we're missing something. Anyway, I don't think wargamming is a particularly sophisticated hobby, so who are we on our best bahavior for?

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