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Hello and a offer


agudor
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First of all, hello and sorry for my bad english.

I have been reading this forum for a while but this is my first message.

I have read the message of Zappsweden "Hubert. I could make a rebirth of SC if I had a better Editor." and i must say that it's possible to change the unit statics by modifying some files in the game. In fact maybe I could make a tool to edit that files.

Problem is: I fear that some people could use that tool to cheat in the game. I mean: you are paying 400 for an air fleet and your oponent, whit the game modified, is paying 300.

Maybe I could give it only to some people that want to create new scenarios.

Also I don't know if the programmer of SC will be in agreement with this.

Some suggestions?

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Also I don't know if the programmer of SC will be in agreement with this.

Some suggestions?

This would be key. From a moral / leagal point of view I would cantact him first with your idea. Hubert seams to be a designer very open to players imput and has always answered my e-mails quickly and with thoughtfullness.

Don't worry about your english - my typing sucks and people seam to handle reading my posts - LOL.

[ October 18, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

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agudor

No need to worry about your English, it's fine.

I doubt you'll get the go ahead for this but it's thoughtful of you to consider the whole community in the idea.

Too much attention is given to cheaters; I wouldn't concern myself with that. An improved editor would be good for everyone, including those who play only against the AI.

People small enough to cheat will always find a way. The messages at this forum tend to make SC seem like a competitive game, but it's real intent is recreational.

Another cost idea tossed around was to have each unit of a given type become incrementally more expensive than the last one. That way the tenth air fleet a country builds would be much more costly than, say, it's fourth or fifth. It would be the same for all units, of course; probably it would vary by type.

Units would increase at a given % per type as new ones are built, each more expensive than the previous one that country built, but not counting those in play in it's initial Order of Battle.

Air Fleets and Bombers, to me, would be the most expensive, increasing at 20% per new unit, tanks and rockets would increase 15% with Armies, naval units and corps at 10%.

Such a system would reflect diminishing resources and manpower.

[ October 18, 2003, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Originally posted by agudor:

First of all, hello and sorry for my bad english.

I have been reading this forum for a while but this is my first message.

I have read the message of Zappsweden "Hubert. I could make a rebirth of SC if I had a better Editor." and i must say that it's possible to change the unit statics by modifying some files in the game. In fact maybe I could make a tool to edit that files.

Problem is: I fear that some people could use that tool to cheat in the game. I mean: you are paying 400 for an air fleet and your oponent, whit the game modified, is paying 300.

Maybe I could give it only to some people that want to create new scenarios.

Also I don't know if the programmer of SC will be in agreement with this.

Some suggestions?

Aagudor

Just thought I would pop in here on this discussion to add a few thoughts/explanations.

The idea of an extended editor has come up a lot lately, and while I have mentioned that it would not be an official addition to SC, whether from me or sanctioned via a third party, the primary reason is in fact cheating (there are others ;) ). This was of course not something that I really wanted to describe in too much detail.... but since the cat is out of the bag it certainly does not hurt to explain it a little further.

The fact is that, as I have often said before, in many ways I was learning as I went along in developing SC, and SC simply was not designed (properly) to have extended editing capabilities (beyond what is available in the current campaign editor). Well not so much in the way that it would be editable seamlessly between opponents without resulting in an unfair advantage for one or the other, i.e. cheating. It just comes down to how the data is stored and manipulated by the game engine, which is what Aagudor is alluding to above, and how in the end cheating will be that much easier if extended editing capabilities are introduced.

While it is certainly debatable as to how or why SC is played, and what method is the most popular, i.e. single player, hotseat, TCP/IP etc., at the end of the day a decision must be made in the best interest of everyone involved, be that the players who want the most out of the game and in my case the designer who has to sit down and make any number of changes.

While the decision to not support further editing capabilities for SC may not be the most popular, I truly believe it is the right one to make. As pointed out in some of the other threads, which I will address shortly, there are always ways to cheat and no real point to make it any easier. Personally, I do believe that one of SC's strengths is the fun from pseudo competitive play, and if this type of play is weakened by the increased suspicion of cheating then it will really become a case of beware of what you wish for ;)

Now before the solo players jump all over me for not including it for them ;) , consider that in many ways I am listening and that safe extended editing capabilities will be included for SC2. Again, why not this game you ask? ;) Well at some point I have to commit my resources and time towards endeavors that will continue to support my future, and after a year and seven patches I think SC one has had a fair amount of investment from me, hopefully enough by most to feel that I don't simply put something out and abandon it. ;)

Ok, a little long in the tooth, but I hope this helps,

Hubert

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Mysefl, if some people say they can make a 3rd party edititor, I would prefer it it were available to everyrone, even if it made cheating easier for those that wish to do so.

Right now if they are cheats in SC they are just between the cheaters and who knows what cheats they could have come up with.

The Quake2 source code was eventually released even though it was obvious it would make cheating easier, but cheating already existed.

BTW, I'm sure Hubert can give his blessings or not to a 3rd party editor, but if that editor is 3rd party and does not modifiy the SC Editor, nothing can really be done legally to stop that.

NOTE: I'm happy with SC as is, the only thing I wish is a full world map with Japan, oh and the Canada/USA land connection, same with the Finland/Sweden/Norway land connections ;) .

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