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first full game (vs comp)


mutil8
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after playing the demo a few times I decided to purchase the game (couldnt find it in stores, if its not in retail store this game wont sell anywhere near its potential). Read the forums a bit for strategies. Game showed up very fast like 3-4 days after I ordered.

downloaded the patch (1.06) and ran it. Never saw a version # in the game though.

Played turns 1 and 2 a couple time as axis to get a feel for it on intermidiate level, computer exp +1, then played a full game. AI wasnt bad, but it was an easy victory. Went through Denmark and Poland, then Sweden, Norway, France, UK (june 15, 41), USSR (oct 42). Germany was pumping out a carrier a turn and I was swarming around the US with carriers and transports trying to bludgeon my way on (every hex had something), got bored and quit. Anyway to get a score during game? game ends on certain date? Going to try allies next then PBEM I guess.

Had a hard time keeping units experienced. reinforcing units usually took exp to 0, some trick to this?

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If you want a fun game as the Axis, play the scenarios from 42 on, otherwise it's just too easy. As the Allies, some of the user made scenarios provide your best challenge. As for experience, it's tough. I generally try not to reinforce unless I have to, and I can usually build up a good bit of xp for them, but that's probably just my imagination. :D

PS - And as for why it's not available in stores, go to the battlefront.com page and read their manifesto. That explains why they don't sell in stores better than I can.

[ December 24, 2002, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ]

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Originally posted by mutil8:

Had a hard time keeping units experienced. reinforcing units usually took exp to 0, some trick to this?

If you have the luxury of having a reserve, slow down your reinforcement schedule. Only give them a point or two (or at least one less than what will start lowering exp). Sometimes you just can't avoid it as exp will be lost immediately with the granting of one point, but even then, reinforcing over a number of turns can help.

Of course if you have to reinforce in place and can't pull a unit from the line, then you are throwing a bunch of green troops in without giving the unit time to assimilate them and you get drastic exp losses.

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mutil-8; or can I call you Motel-8? --- The version number appears in the bottom right corner of the main menu. That's the only place I've seen it.

Far as this experience stuff, don't worry about, it's over-rated. As the Axis you have plenty of battles & will get lots of experience troops (& dead troops). These guys who preach only reinforce a couple of points to save experience are wasting precious time as the Axis. I'm not going to let a half-of-a-star-experience slowdown my Juggarnaut.

Rambo >>> Helping the Rookies

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Originally posted by zappsweden:

I can't see why a repeated reinforce of 1 point don't lower the experience. As i see it, the sta symbol is a rounded value i.e 0.25, 0.5, 0.75 or full star is shown, but the ACTUAL value might be 0.29 or whatever.

it represents adding few troops and then distributing them through your force and allowing the workup and training time with vets to leaven the greenies a bit... somewhat how the Germans did things for the first few years of the war until things started to get desperate.
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Originally posted by zappsweden:

Compassion, are you absolutely sure that small increases doesn't decrease experience "eventually", i.e

Have u tried doing 4-5 turns of 1 point reinforcements without losing any experience?

Yes. It's not universal and I'm not sure what the formula is, but usually you can add one or two points without worry. There are times when this is not the case, and when that happens, the unit in question will not take a reinforcemetn without a hit to exp no matter what you do.

I do know from observation that if you can start to build units back up that if you can add a point or two in a turn, you should be able to do it every turn. That much seems to be constant.

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Mr. Compassion --- Or is it Mrs. Compassion...Are there any women that play SC? (I need to remain Politically Correct)

Anyhow......You're RIGHT! The reinforcement thing is not consistent. I have considered it, but it changes how it works. Granted, I have not done a complete statistical anaylsis, bell-curves, beta-values, etc.

If everybody starts this slow reinforcement thing, games will get even slooooooooooooooower.

I think we need a "Shot Clock" to speed things up.

Rambo >>>> In praise of faster play

[ December 26, 2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

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Rambo --

"If everybody starts this slow reinforcement thing, games will get even slooooooooooooooower."

Agreed. Feeding one point at a time to very weak units is not only time consuming but boring. Not that it can be done very often or on all fronts as usually it's impossible to simply pull veteran units out of the line to have elite troops turn recruits into skilled veterans.

Normally it isn't done that way in any case. Elite soldiers are usually reassigned to training units and in some cases combined with other elite soldiers to form new highly effective units (Merril's marauders, etc., significantly on too small a scale to use here; showing how high the attrition rate is to distill a small number of very seasoned troops).

If what Rambo means is that reinforcing a seasoned unit is made more productive than it currently is i.e., a half-stregnth unit with 3+medal brought up to full stregnth (in line) and having 2+ medals instead of going down to 1+ then I'm in full agreement. As it is there's almost no chance to have crack or elite full stregnth formations. It would make the game more interesting and reward countries whose troops/airmen and sailors have already fought numerous battles.

[ December 26, 2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

Normally it isn't done that way in any case. Elite soldiers are usually reassigned to training units and in some cases combined with other elite soldiers to form new highly effective units (Merril's marauders, etc., significantly on too small a scale to use here; showing how high the attrition rate is to distill a small number of very seasoned troops).

THat isn't quite right at the scale of this game. At the scale of this game, it would be much more probable to see a divsion detached to r&r and a fresh one brought in.

What you are thinking of is the expereince of much saller units (div and below) being pulled back to refit and take replacements after being completely depleted. Even then the experience of different armies at different times is illuminating. That's one of the reasons that US doncrine calls for a much longer working up period and to not take replacments in the line when at all possible and when absulutely necessary to put up fully trained units that had trained together rather than send individual soldiers to plug holes.

If what Rambo means is that reinforcing a seasoned unit is made more productive than it currently is i.e., a half-stregnth unit with 3+medal brought up to full stregnth (in line) and having 2+ medals instead of going down to 1+ then I'm in full agreement. As it is there's almost no chance to have crack or elite full stregnth formations. It would make the game more interesting and reward countries whose troops/airmen and sailors have already fought numerous battles.

I don't know about that at all. Look at how the repple-depple system worked for the US. Even veteran replacements that were returning from injury to a new unit would end up doing damage to that unit becasue pell mell pouring in of new troops to an existing formation and then not allowing those replacements to work up into their new teams would do drastic damage to unit cohesiveness.

[ December 26, 2002, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ]

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Compassion

Good points.

It's made more complicated by the varying approaches taken by different combatants. The U. S. system went more toward uniformity. The Soviets designated elite forces with Guard status (which included higher pay, such as it was). At the other extreme they employed penal combat units and the Germans had their own equivalent, used for high risk and virtual suicide assignments. No equivalent unit existed in Common Wealth and American armies.

Agreed, of course, that units pulled into rear areas were divisions and not entire armies or even corps, but there's no way of showing this in a game that doesn't use units that small!

I still agree with Rambo's basic premise. There has to be a better way of representing combat experience mixing with reinforcements, but on this scale I don't see a good way of doing it other than tweaking the current equation.

[ December 26, 2002, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

Agreed, of course, that units pulled into rear areas were divisions and not entire armies or even corps, but there's no way of showing this in a game that doesn't use units that small!

I call it good enough to pull entire units back for refit if there are good fresh units available. At this scale and simplicity, unless Hubert went to some kind of step reduction scheme that could be paid back without a loss, I'm not sure that it could be done... and even then you start getting into micromanagement hell.

[ December 26, 2002, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ]

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Compassion

"I call it good enough to pull entire units back for refit if there are good fresh units available."

Yes, and the same approach I use whenever possible in actual game play. I don't like using depleted units in combat.

In this case it helps that new units seemingly without limit can be created to cover this process as it consumes a full turn to withdraw units before you can even start rebuilding them.

It might make things easier if you operate or move a unit without engaging in combat, you could also reinforce that unit the same turn.

Like yourself, I'd like to avoid micro-management whenever possible.

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