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British units disappear when france falls, Bug.


acrashb
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Playing as Allies against the AI, my entire airforce was clustered around the city in the french area next to Iraq to support the conquest of Baghdad. French and British airfleets.

Just as my expeditionary force landed, france fell, and the entire airforce vanished.

You can imagine the effect this has had on the campaign!

Should they not have been displaced instead, perhaps to British-controlled Egypt?

[ November 24, 2002, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: aaronb ]

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Originally posted by aaronb:

Just as my expeditionary force landed, france fell, and the entire airforce vanished.

You can imagine the effect this has had on the campaign!

Should they not have been displaced instead, perhaps to British-controlled Egypt?

That feature represents that all french units on french-controlled hexes lay down their weapons and surrender. Operate french units of any kind to commonwealth territory, and they will be available for further action after the fall of france.
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Originally posted by JayJay_H:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aaronb:

Just as my expeditionary force landed, france fell, and the entire airforce vanished.

You can imagine the effect this has had on the campaign!

Should they not have been displaced instead, perhaps to British-controlled Egypt?

That feature represents that all french units on french-controlled hexes lay down their weapons and surrender. Operate french units of any kind to commonwealth territory, and they will be available for further action after the fall of france.</font>
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I little trick I've learned is to place French Units on British soil before the fall of France.

EX: move the Syrian Corps south into the British controlled territory and it will not disappear when France falls

EX: move the French Algerian corp to gibral....or malt and it also will not disappear after the fall of France,

Hope this helps.

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Originally posted by Lah:

I found it wrong that a French cruiser sitting in Liverpool docks dissapeared when France fell :mad:

This is semi-historical.

When France capitulated to the Germans, the British INTERNED French troops that had escaped to Great Britain during the Dunkirk evacuation and also boarded French Navy ships in English docks.

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It's random...I've seen Hubert discuss this..Each ship has the potential to remain loyal or go "Vichy". Is a "Vichy" boat were in an impossible situation, surely they would sabotage the boat.

I am far from an expert on the game but I have become quite devilish with the Free French forces.

: The best way to avoid loosing those Free French boats to 'probability' is to send them directly to the med, Screen the British fleet with the French and "Jump" the Italians when they come in. If you lose some French boats, so what, at least they go down swinging and cripple the Italian fleet before the British even have to take a shot!

[ November 15, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: General Billote ]

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Thanks for all the well-meaning advice about keeping french units going... but the issue is:

British airfleets disappearing from a cluster around Beirut when France falls. The Beirut area is converted to Vichy, and the airfleets, instead of being relocated, vanish.

I have a savegame if/when Hubert shows up.

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That's just part of the way the game works at the moment...For your unit to remain "Free" it must actually be in the city hex with a port....So basically Syria is a horrible place for British units until you can get an HQ over there. That city doesn't have a port, therefor you are stuck in enemy territory with no means of escape.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Certain statements made here turn out to be, how shall I put this? Wrong.

Testing shows that British units in France at the time of capitulation survived just fine, as one would expect. It doesn't matter whether or not the units are in, near, or far from a port.

Like this:

britsSurviveIfInFrance112402.JPG

So, Hubert, are non-French units outside of continental France supposed to disappear when France surrenders, while non-French units inside France proper continue to fight, or not?

Thanks.

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My experience is that British/Canadian units in Axis contolled France live on. Allied units in Vichy French territory at the time of surrender, however, surrender themselves.

The lesson is don't have British/Canadian units in what will soon be Vichy territory upon French surrender. You'll lose them.

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Originally posted by Jollyguy:

My experience is that British/Canadian units in Axis contolled France live on. Allied units in Vichy French territory at the time of surrender, however, surrender themselves.

The lesson is don't have British/Canadian units in what will soon be Vichy territory upon French surrender. You'll lose them.

My experience has been the same. And I sympathise with whoever started this string - I have had the same thing happen to me. In a recent game I had a british hq, tank, corp, and air fleet in syria ready to attack iraq. france surrendered and instead of moving those units outside syria - they simply were destroyed.

I dont understand under the same circumstances the same thing does not happen to axis units. For example if you have an italian unit in areas to be controlled by vichy france, when france falls those units are moved outside the borders of vichy - they arent lost.

If british units are in areas to be controlled by vichy france when france falls - they are destroyed. Neither are german units in italy eliminated when italy falls. Really except this one quirk with france no units are ever lost when a nation is conquered, except the units of that nation.

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It is my opinion that there should NOT be ANY Free French units to argue about in the first place.

We have the strange instance of French naval vessels that have been sunk, re-appearing in Vichy ports.

We have the even stranger instance of a full Free French corps helping the Allies defend Britain or North Afrika.

Can anyone establish historically -- at what point in the war the Free French made any APPRECIABLE difference in the strategic outcome?

Sure enough, marching in with colors streaming AFTER a grateful city has been reclaimed is important and vital for post-war French resolve (... in particular, for prescient and realpolitik warriors, in French Indo-China).

Yet, just as with the Maquis, the French participation -- post-collapse of '40, is truly over indulged... perhaps, in appreciation for the deservedly renowned museums and other "catholic" cultural achievments?

However, IMHO, this is one "gamey" aspect of SC that definitely needs some tweaking. smile.gif

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Originally posted by Jollyguy:

My experience is that British/Canadian units in Axis contolled France live on. Allied units in Vichy French territory at the time of surrender, however, surrender themselves.

The lesson is don't have British/Canadian units in what will soon be Vichy territory upon French surrender. You'll lose them.

You're right - and I'm suggesting that the behaviour is a 'bug', since it is inconsistent from France Vichy. It's not believable to think that British units would just put up their hands because they were geographically in the wrong spot.
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This is intentional due to the internal game mechanics and how Vichy becomes a neutral territory once France surrenders. To the victor goes the spoils and the Axis units are moved to the nearest cities while Allied units trapped will surrender. If however they are trapped in non-Vichy territory they will continue on to fight.

Hope this helps,

Hubert

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