Comrade Trapp Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 lol I'd say, I guess CVM is very unforgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Comrade When I said "Harsh Terms . .. ." I was hinting at that. I think, historically, Imperial Germany would have been satisfied with Eastern Belgium as part of Germany, Western Belgium as a protectorate with parts of Northern France extending from the Channel East to existing German territories near the Rhine. I think France would have accepted that. In the real WW I, the French Armies experienced mutinies after the bloodbaths of 1915-16-17. Their morale was very shaky and I'm not altogether sure they'd have been very effective after the loss of Paris. On the other hand, such a catastrophe might have sparked them into a greater effort; in any event, you're undoubtedly correct that France would not have accepted unconditional surrender and I don't think Germany would have continued fighting to try and force it. The real stumbling block regarding Brest-Litovsk was the return of Belgium and Northern France. No matter how the European war went, the German colonies would have fallen during the war, part of the treaty would have involved their return In the event of an absolute surrender of the French colonies, Germany would still have needed to go occupy the places. Many would have opted for independance. I think this is the most likely area where the United States would have gotten involved. Neutralizing the French Empire was, of course, Germany's main reason for creating Vichy. One way or another, though, a victorious Germany would have emerged with a colonial empire and I still think it would be interesting to speculate regarding it's effect on history. [ April 22, 2003, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 Remember, at least in the Middle East, the Ottomans had captured some of the French Areas. so naturally they would want to keep them. As for the outright annexation of France, I offered to accept Brest-Litvosk IF the Low Countries and the French Mine were included: No deal. So, allright I thought, I'll take it all! Btw, Jersey, myself and Brad DO intend to follow the Rise or Fall of the new Imperial German Empire. Churchill wont take this defeat sitting down. CvM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 CvM Excellent -- looking forward to some great reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Should have accepted it, but I was playing from British point of view, and I thought "I'm not really playing for anyone but the low countries, so why would I let them be annexed?" CvM, Hope we can think of some timeline to reach to the next AAR game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Couple questions though, what about my Stronghold in Greece? And Do I still got Suez? And what happens to the 11 armies-corps I had in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Your 11 Units in France? Germany is gracious and allows their return to Britain. Have to, otherwise he wouldnt have a good Part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I'm suprised that CVM didn't have them all shot. BTW, how is Russia going to play out in this next game. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I imagine we will have Russia become USSR, and have a resonable army, and attempt to take independent Ukrania, all the way to Germany? Posibly attempt to get Baltic States and Finland back. It loses 4 Cities, a port and a mine on our drawn up deal, CvM, was Sevastpol part of it? [ April 22, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Brad T. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yes, Just check out Jersey John's Brest-Litvosk Campaign for what the Borders in the East should Look Like The Next will Probably be a cross of The Brest-Litvosk CAmpaign, and my Vive Le Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 CVM...you up for a game tonight? I have been looking forward to a little payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Just looked at Jerseys, Smolensk is German though, was that part of the surrender? Anyway, like the idea, when you wanna start workin on the map? Will the Ottoman empire survive? The Austro-Hungarian? [ April 22, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Brad T. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Brad T.: Just looked at Jerseys, Smolensk is German though, was that part of the surrender? Anyway, like the idea, when you wanna start workin on the map? Will the Ottoman empire survive? The Austro-Hungarian? Brad, Smolensk is Russian!. The open territory directly west of it is German, that's only a buffer zone I added. Voronezh, Stalingrad and Rostov are also Russian, though the open hexes west of those areas are also German. If you and CvM want to push the boundry a little further west, say one or two hexes, it wouldn't make things particularly inaccurate. Aside from which it's difficult to find two maps of the Treaty Boundaries that agree 100%. I based mine on the 1938 book, Brest-Litovsk, The Forgotten Peace March 1918 by John W. Wheeler-Bennett. [reprinted by The Norton Library -- very interesting with great appendixes, but probably more than most people would ever want to know about the subject. ] Going by my game map, the cities are on the sides they should be on and the boundary is roughly accurate; I removed the German area shown very close to Lenningrad (five or six hexes) to give the Soviets a chance of defending the place, and added two or three hexes west of Minsk, to give the Ukranians a similar buffer. Other maps from encyclopedias show Germany also controling tracts of the Western Caucasus with an independant Armenia farther south. This would have deprived the rump USSR of too much of it's remaining resources, so I abstracted that Armenia was reabsorbed in the early 1920s and the USSR either made an arrangement with Ukrania for the Caucasus zone or took it outright in a border war. In any event, those occupied areas are not depicted in the book map, which, as I mentioned, is pretty much as I've laid it out. Thanks to both of you for referring to my Scenario. CvM's description of a hybrid Vive Le Reich/Brest-Litovsk sounds like fun. [ April 23, 2003, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Jersey John Am I ever going to get to play you in a game of SC? Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Comrade Didn't mean to have it come off that way -- it was the last thing I wanted. Playing you would be an honor and thanks for offering. The trouble is I can't play IP as it takes too long; I've tried it a few times and have never been able to go more than three hours, only a few moves, without having to break it off. Which isn't to say I don't play a lot, but it's all PBEM. I get hit with insomnia and come here at these outlandish hours hoping to get drowsy. Usually I'm out by about 3:30, giving me around four hours sleep. Having said all that, if you'd care to play PBEM, choose a scenario and send your first move, I don't mind being the Allies. I'm particularly eager to give Bill's new Barbarossa Campaign a shot. Looking forward to playing. I try to get out at least a move each day; weekends sometimes get difficult. If you don't like PBEM, and I know many good players don't, I won't feel slighted. JohnofJersey@AOL.com [ April 23, 2003, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 JerseyJohn Don't worry, it didn't come off the wrong way, I didn't take a offence. I was just wounderingi if I'm was ever going to get to play you. PBEM is fine, its not my favorite but I think I can live with it. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Comrade Great, whenever you're in the mood, send a move. Looking forward to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 JerseyJohn You interested in doing the same thing CVM and Brad were doing, starting with WWI and going on to WWII? Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Sure, that sounds like fun, if you'd like the Central Powers, fire when ready! [ April 23, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 CvM, just sent you an e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 CVM or Brad Are these the correct house rules: * Russians cannot attack on the first 2 turns, however they can reinforce (mobilization) * The Serbian and Bulagrian Units may not leave their Designated Countries * No Country is to build: Tank Groups, Airfleets, strategic Bombers. Only Germans may build U Boats. (Considering not allowing purchasing of Rocket Groups, for now, lets say each country in allowed 1, for use as a 'rail gun' *Paris Gun, etc.*) * FOW ON WAR IN SIBERIA OFF ALL PARTISANS OFF ALL RANDOM FREE FRENCH OFF Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Thats them, we also had rules like, Warsaw and 1 other Russian city, the commies revolt, Paris captured France surrenders and Britain may enter peace talks, be creative though with those. And whoever loses, don't agree for the other player to "dictate surrender conditions" hope you have fun, its a great campaign. P.S, don't buy the rocket, both me and CvM made that mistake. (I bought it as Britain, and couldnt get it to France!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Alright here are the House Rules, they have been changed a little bit (Allies benefit from the changes for the most part). * Communists overthrow the Czar and sue for peace if the Central Powers capture Warsaw + 2 Russian Cities. * No Country is to build: Tank Groups, Airfleets, or Strategic Bombers. The Triple Alliance and the Central Powers my have 1 Rocket Unit each (consider it a Rail Gun). * Either side can start or withdraw from Peace Talks at any point in the game. * France surrenders once Paris falls, England can choose to continue war or sue for peace. Fog of War: ON Siberian War: OFF All Partisans: OFF Free French: OFF Scortched Earth: OFF JerseyJohn, do these rules sound ok to you? Also do you want to do an multiplayer AAR, I wouldn't mind doing one. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Comrade The house rules sound fine. I'm a bit hazy on the research, is any allowed? -- If no research or L levels above 0 for either side that's okay with me and makes sense. A multiplayer AAR is fine with me; I've never done one, is there any special way of doing it or do we write entries as we go along? If you feel like starting tonight I should be able to get two moves in -- I'd like to turn in around 2:00 or 2:30 a.m. my time (currently 12:25 here). Will return to this site about 1:00 a.m.; have to finish something offline. [ April 24, 2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 JerseyJohn Research is allowed in all areas (needless to say that it would be pointless to do research in things like Jet Aircraft and Heavy Tanks). Although I have a feeling tech won't be a big factor in this WWI campaign. As for the AAR, we'll use CVM & Brad's as an outline (I have never done one neither). Looks like we're in the same timezone so that will make this easier. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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