Defensive Axis Strategy, any good?

[Norse]

We've discussed different agressive and highly agressive Axis strategies lately, and you all seem to have your own ideas of how to smash thru the allies quickly to obtain victory.

But I was thinking about a different approach. Basically, being highly agressive comes with a certain risk (as we know the axis lost), and the allies are going to outproduce the axis soon. So I was thinking, what about going at it as defensively as possible and see what happens? Have any of the Beta testers tried this approach?

Take the Low Countries and France as usual. Then build an in-debth defence in France and against USSR. Send 2 more corps, a hq and an airfleet to Norway (to make sure allies don't use Norway / Sweeden as a staging point for an invasion directly against Germany).

USA and USSR would be out of the war for much longer too, and Germany get some time to soldify Fortress Europe. If possible, Germany should hit Spain and take Gibraltar once "USA prepares for war" happens. That way Italy is safer too, and can soldify it's position in the med.

Well, you can fill in the rest, drop some tech chits on Industrial research and so.

What do you think? Have anyone tried this? Results?

~Norse~

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Good ideas. 'Cept u dont want to be on the defensive too long. Invade russia by at least 1942.

[Sol Invictus]

That is sorta what I will try in my first game. I wont attack Russia until '42 and use the intervening 2 years, after the fall of France, to emasculate the British in the Med. The only worries I have are whether I can get the Spanish to join the Axis and will Russia cooperate with my schedule. It all really depends on how hard it will be to get the Spanish on board. If that happens then England is in a world of hurt. Even if Spain never joins the Axis, the British will have lost Malta and Suez; Yugoslavia and Greece will be taken and with a little luck Turkey might join the Axis. This would certainly put me in a very good postion vis-a-vis the British and Americans and allow me a couple of years to conquer Russia before I have to worry about the West. Lots to think about.

[waltero]

I use the demo as part of my strategy. It is my beleaf that on a 1vs1 Germany is going to get all that it can by demo's end, than it must start thinking defence in order to win a draw.

Now if you think about taking Russia or UK you dont need to think about it(defence) becouse you will be going for the total victory.

[Straha]

I think that going on the defense early makes you loose the game. A two front war should be avoided, but if you do not declare war on Russia yourself, you will have this very two front war later anyway, and at a time when it already is too late because the enemy is too strong. So Russia must be knocked out of the picture early, quick and hard before the UK/US are strong enough to pose a threat on the other front. There should be more efforts than historically to get Malta and Egypt, but if in doubt, Barbarossa must have absolute priority.

Straha

[Sol Invictus]

Well if Husky is correct and Germany must at least start an invasion of England to have a chance of Spain joining the cause, then I might just go after Russia as early as possible because I really dont want to invade England.

[Von_Manteuffel]

In this game you must be on the offensive with Germany. You have gain mpp's for yourself and take them from the allies. You can't do that sitting still.

[Sol Invictus]

Does anyone know the approximate conditions for getting Turkey to join the Axis? With Spain it seems that if youve kicked Britain really badly then they will come in, I have not seen any mention about Turkey.

[Norse]

Originally posted by Von_Manteuffel:

In this game you must be on the offensive with Germany. You have gain mpp's for yourself and take them from the allies. You can't do that sitting still.

Actually, going defensive in-debth doesn't leave you in a much weaker position, because the only thing you won't get is some Ukranian factories. Well you might say that is a big loss, but on the other hand, you can conquer Sweeden, Spain, Vichy(and Greece) once USA/USSR is in the game. Going all defence means u should atleast theoretically have the units to go on a quick offensive against thoose nations to sack their MPP's (except Vichy, unless ur really good ).

So you can say, that atleast you get the MPP's and factories from Sweeden and Spain, instead of from Ukraine. The tradeoff is that USA/USSR is out of the game longer, and you face less attrition warfare, meaning you get more time to build your defences. And you can research more instead of buying units for an offensive (anti-air, industrial tech, I imagine would be the most useful here)

Just imagine something like this. France, you have your main defence 1 hex away from the coast, with armies, tanks and lots of rockets (good coastal defence eh? ). Behind that is the airfleets and HQ's for all. Then at the coast you got the corps. All units are entrenched to the max of course. Even if the allies outproduce you by now, then they will still need to bombard your corps till it's gone, or you just reinforce it back to max again, and you know its really cheap to reinforce a corps compared to the airlosses it takes to bombard it. You might just be able to stand up to a much stronger foe this way, not sure, but I think it would be possible. If you just take your time and get some airfleets and rockets, then you can sink some expensive battleships each turn as well.

Of course there is the possibility that the allies will be able to overrun the German defences, and by then it's already too late, so this approach doesn't work at all. Espesically since USSR will be in a good position here. Somehow I got a good feeling about this though Man I can't wait for the game to test theese things out

~Norse~

[gorski]

I am also leaning towards a late Barbarosa, but I need to see what the Russian force pool looks like at different times. Keep USA out of the war as long as possible, which means only attacking the standard countries in the early years. A big attack on Russia is a critical part of the game. You never get a chance to do this much damage to a major country except your 1 shot at Barbarosa. another thing we don't know about from the beta is when an unprovoked USA enters the war. +10% readiness every turn starting in late 41 or what?

Gorski

[Sgt. Recon]

I agree about a defensive position against USSR. And keeping a hold on the European continent.

I tried this aproach with the demo and it worked well. I used the Italian navy in the Med very effectively to limit UK influence here. Broke through Gibralter and used the It navy to help control the Atlantic. Simulaniously taking Portugal and Spain (after the fall of France).

This gave me an edge in both the Med and the Atlantic. German Air & Navy were built and manitained in the Channel / Baltic.

Unfortunatly the demo ended before I could see the end result but it game the best advantage and it was fun using IT navy to help sing allied shiping in the Atlantic.

[Von_Manteuffel]

The problem I see is that Russia gets so many mpp's. If you don't reduce those, you have a real problem sitting right next to you.

Russia can throw everything at the front while a defensive Germany has to worry about the western allies too. It's a recipe for disaster even if you have very good defense.

[angel]

[ July 30, 2002, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Madmatt ]

[Norse]

I agree Manstein, we shall see how it works out

[Sol Invictus]

I'm hoping that I can delay Barbarossa until summer '42 and use the time after the fall of France to run rampant in the Med. One way or the other, war with Russia is coming; it's just a question of how long it is prudent to delay it and whether the prizes gained are worth the delay. I guess I'll find out in a week.