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Terif (allied):Dragonheart(axis) front report


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Well, as i m the only one here playing ag the "unbeatable" Terif i will provide you with some front-reports. I can´t say AAR as we started 3 weeks ago, interrupted by my TCIP failture lasting for two weeks. So most of the infos are not exactly as its difficult to remember all details happened so far, but maybe Terif is also writing his view here.

Terif gave me axis this time with 200/1600, as a result he crushed me two times with him playing axis (300/2400).

I had a good start conquering poland,LC in round 2, denmark in round 3. My subs were running into a trap as Terif moved his bomber to the north and spotted them.

But the early defeat of my subs had also it´s bright sight as this encouraged him to move almost the hole royal navy and french into the baltic. Expecting such a thing i sent one of my fighters to denmark for spotting purpose.

In France he used his usual hordes of engl. corps defence as i denied him to buy a french HQ in the first round when bombing the french mine.

As i had almost no losses and got very good plunder i could afford 6 fighters during the french campaign. Whilst he were hunting my navy in the baltic i established a trap, using 4 fighters to put a revenge for my destroyed sub and one cruiser. During the French campagne he lost 4 ships and 1 was damaged, me loosing two blocking corps. In the land battle i lost 1 army and finally finished off france in aug ´40.

I know it´s a bit late but i was really satisfied..decimated the royal navy and had a good experience with all HQ and units.

To make up for the lost time i rushed over the minors, conquered Norway 2, Vichy 3, Schweden 5 rounds after the fall of france. (norway i prepared during the last french turn).

As i expected heavy air near Brest i did´t try to take Brest .. and this for the entire game so far.

My allies joined early so i could attack spain early. I had to do that with a minimum force as i had no time to reinforce and the italians were engaged in egypt facing 2 britsh fighters there.

I conquered spain in round 4 as they refused to surrender in round 3. On a counterattack were all carriers and one battleship were involved i lost one italian battleship pinging on the rock. My fighters arrived to late to take revenge for that unholy action. smile.gif The load all their frustration later on the rock which was mine 2 rounds later.

With the help of Bock 4 Star and two fighters strengh 8 and 5 with two stars each the italians could conquer egypt and suez just in time to prepare for irak.

In preperation for the allied coup in yogoslavia i did a grave mistake. I landed two armies from sweden near the russian border. In order not to have 6 armies on the border i moved two coprs out of 3 hex range. But despite having only 4 units on the border (two in cities,two 2 hex away) the russian readyness inbreased from 58% to /70%. This never happened to me before and i was very disappointed that this happens ag Terif, making russia entering 2 turns earlier. I gave him 960 points as present. :mad: Ok, i had to live with it, so the bid was 200/1600+960 now :D

But not only the waste of MPP also the loss of important time was a desaster.

Barbarossa kicked off in september ´41 ? and i did not do perfectly but quite well if one consider i had lost two rounds. Terif established his first defence arround all border cities. The first rounds i spent to bit through hordes of corps. I managed to get 3 of the 4 border cities (except Riga)

Whilst i got Greece, Irak, Potugal he grabbed finland.

Meanwhile a combined force launched D-Day with heavy air support. As i was going to loose the air battle i moved all air the the east. I lost 3 AF whilst he lost just one. (5 left) Just when his units reached the outskirts of paris the italians finished off the swiss and rushed to Paris to support their friends. The yanks already lvl 2 moved slowly forward and the many italians died under combined air and infantry attacks. But my 2 italian hq and one german managed to hold the paris line.

As my air catched up from 1 levl behind him to +1 i decided to give the airbattle in the west another chance. I tried a snake attack over spain but unfortuately i moved one of his carrier in sight so i could only kill one further battleship.

By the way battleship.... tongue.gif when trying to reach a save port in france my italian fleet was intercepted by his vessels and was completely anhilated...but he had no usefull ships too.

Ok back to the airbattle. For that purpose i ordered manstein back from the east and bought two additional AF (now 7) and he did quite well. the british lost their second air and all other untis retreated.

The funny thing is that now i kill americans in the west and his russians got free hand in killing germans in the east. My northern front completely broke and i lost minsk? (not sure, its the city in the middle) I had to withrdrew to Königsberg area. My south flank under command of rundstet is still holding as he counters only in the north supported by his air (lvl 3 now)

Overview of known or expected tech levls.

germany italy gbp usa russia

inf 0 2 0 2 1

tank 1 0 0 0 1

anti air 1 0 1-2? 0 ?

jet 3 0 2 1 3

LR 0 0 1-2? 1 ?

tech 2 0 ? ? 2

For all those interested.....how is the game since the AAR bug......i can say it´s the same game like before.....i invested 1 chit in AAR not because of the AAR bug but i always invest one chit there in order to avoid carrier training on my ports and cities. I think Terif did the same...maximum 1 chit here...but maybe i´m wrong.

As you can see SC is still alive and if one want you can have a lot of fun like me and terif. I dont´t really bother if i win or not although its a panzerliga league game. If reach a draw ..it would be the best thing ever for me.....a draw against the king..... lol and the odds for a draw are quite good at the mom.....but let´s see what is going on in the future.

We are currently somewhere 1943 ..don´t know exactly.

To be continued.......

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This is one of the best games with the most fun I played since a long time. Thanks Dragonheart smile.gif .

The Royal Navy suffered heavy losses in the baltic, but only one german cruiser survived and it delayed the french campaign, so it was worth sacrificing some UK ships.

At the start of Barbarossa occured near Portugal the last big naval battle in the war: the UK ships were damaged and reduced in numbers, but well trained and superior in tech (Gun Laying Radar Lv 3 smile.gif ).

So after the 2 turn battle the last 3 italian capital ships, a sub, corps-transport and a german airfleet (near Bordeaux) lied at the bottom of the sea or destroyed at the ground. Against Lv 3 GLR the italian navy was toast :D .

Axis cant afford a two front war, they have to decide where to defend and where to attack. First they tried to wage an air war with only half of their AF in France and the other half in Russia. But Axis noticed soon that this is not a good idea, they have to concentrate or they will suffer heavy losses... so all surviving (1 ?) german AF retreated to Russia.

Axis positioned all AFs in cities to use the Anti-Air (AA) Bonus. They attacked London port to force UK air to intercept. But its more expensive for the german air, London port does additional 2 points damage. And without air superiority it is not possible for Axis air to force intercepts.

Sometimes they tried, but when they did it, they were destroyed immediately in the counterattack next turn. At the moment Axis has air superiority in France, but Allied air retreated, so they cant force them to intercept now too. Consequence: the AA Bonus has no noticable effect.

Allies invaded in the west and marched towards Spain and LC while Axis went on a corps hunt in Russia and finally throw them back to the Riga-Smolensk-Sevastopol line.

Then Axis shifted all air to the west - after they reached Lv3 vs Lv2 UK Jets - together with some heavy units. So western-allies are in the defensive (2 army/corps lines from Bordeaux (captured) to the channel coast), while Russia is moving west, hunting german armies and tanks now as a revenge for the corps massacres not too long ago (Germany entered Russia with 6 tanks, only 2 survivors at the moment) :D .

The most probable outcome will be a draw. In the Panzerliga, victory conditions are a bit different: if one side survives until 1947 it is a draw, no matter how much of them are left. This is to encourage players to fight till the end and not to give up early. It should be nearly impossible for Axis now to erradicate all allied units until 1947, but Axis have also a good chance to survive.

When Axis entered Russia with mostly tanks, all 3 research chits were spent on anti-tank research. Lv1 came a bit late when most enemy tanks were already destroyed but so Russia can sell the chits if necessary. To catch up in Jets Russia invested heavily in Jet-technology (4 chits)and has now the same level as Germany (Lv3). No allied country invested in anti-air. They cant use it anyway.

This game shows once again: in a normal game with 2 skilled opponents it is not possible for Axis to be in the offensive at both fronts. They simply dont have enough mpp to do so.

This game is very interesting:

First heavy battles at both fronts until Axis had to recognize that they cant afford it and had to concentrate on one front.

Then both Allies and Axis moved eastward (Allies in France, Axis in Russia).

At the moment both sides are moving to the west again, but I am sure this will change again after some time smile.gif .


A very good game with a very good opponent smile.gif .

[ November 28, 2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

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Tku for flowers Terif :D

I enjoy the game too, 2 weeks online abstinence was a long time for me.

Well when i move my air back to the east i will face again my carrier and air problem in the west.

The carriers took some damage but i fear not much. I think they are are between 2 and 3 stars.

More or less i can choose were i loose my ground units. ;) The US is producing corps like a madman, every turn one is arriving. Therefore giving Irak to italy was a good solution, as they are responsible for the defence in the west.

At the mom i m quite unsure what to do with my southern russian front....i dont wanna sustain Stalingrad....3 Options there...attack and fall into the back of russian main force, stay and hold, or withdraw to a Königsberg - Black Sea line..

I have currently 6 operating Hq´s and in the east they are already requesting reinforcments due to lack of units :eek:

Currently axis get 830-840 MPP, i think allies will get the same.

Beside that game....

For those who believe Terif only play to win and are talking other smack about him.

There were several situations in the game were i was asking for a hint.......and he helped me although it´s a competition game.....

one example....russian readyness was on 86 % and i was unsure if i could save another round MPP´s or not.....i asked him ...and he told me i dont need to worry before 87%.....

no more words about that matter but it´s worth thinking about....istn´t it?

[ November 28, 2003, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Dragonheart ]

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"Young DragonHeart, you must use the force, for a dangerous enemy awaits." --- Yoda-Terif warns the Dragon, of the Legend.

Is Terif really the little green guy living in a cave for 5000 years, teaching those young warriors, & then fighting only when necessary?


Or is Terif the grandson of this man, who is trying to capture the minds of the people?


[ November 28, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

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back again...

After moving all my air to the west churchhill realized its a hopless case and ordered dünkirchen no2 :D

.... meanwhile the russian border where i decided to hold a very strange line...Königsberg ..arround the marsh hexes in the middle...then down to the black sea, was quiet to quiet. Terif was planning something evil..and i was right he attacked the kebap people (turkey) :D . The only thing i could do was to save Istanbul from communisme. Also Irak felt into russian hands as i had to less units there. In a counterattack with my air i lost another airfleet. Both were at levl 5 now...Only the poor english were still on lvl 2.

Now it´s sealion time...

My problem is that i never did sealion before and so i failed to capture london with my first wave.

Now it´s getting difficult as the allies have loads of units. Now everything depends on my air...which i raised to 9 units in the west.

Now i have to be quick as i lost alot of MPP loosing Irak. When i loose this game i throw it into the waste basket....i think the only options should be a draw or a win. But maybe i m that stupid :D .

The English have only their 3 carriers and 3 crippeld vessels left. The russian bear is very strong...earings of arround 500-520 MPP now.

My problem this time was that i cant concentrate as i was a bit tired from yesterday and i had no patience...but if you wanna win ag Terif you need both....full concentration and to be very very patient.

To be contiunued

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It is now August 22, 1943:

Western allies managed to hold the Bordeaux-Paris-Channel-line for ~6 month. Axis air killed one unit per turn. The US armies slowly but surely died in the counterattacks to reconquer the lost hex(-es) from the last axis turn...at the end only one one US army was left and mainly weak UK corps. Then it was possible for Axis to break the line and throw Allies back from Paris. Time for Dunkirch No.2 :D .

UK scientists helped the axis cause a lot. In an unofficial conference with an axis commander, he assumed they moved to Russia to help them developing Jet technology (Russia went very fast to Lv4) while UK still stuck at Lv2. But british intelligence doesnt believe this story. Rumours say the scientists have been bribed by german agents. Some recent observations back up this horrible suspicion: The british scientists built some heavy bunker for their families during the last year. Nobody knows how they could know what would happen to the allied invasion forces in France and the coming air bombardments on british soil...and where the money to build the bunkers came from... :D .

Fact is, the last UK airfleet (Lv2) has just been destroyed by the superior Lv5 german airfleets.

To disguise "operation Turkey" in the east, carriers (couldnt be used in France anyway) and a british task force launched a feint attack on Norway. They liberated Bergen, transports moved to take Oslo. Axis countered with some new built ships and some airfleets so Allies had to retreat after heavy fightings.

Unfortunately it was not possible to hide the preparations for the turkey invasion completely...too many transports in the Black Sea and units at the turkish border, so Axis was able to prevent Russia from taking Istanbul.

Finally the russian bear striked back and took revenge for the slaughters in the past. They conquered their old enemy Turkey and liberated Iraq + Beirut with their well trained armies and tanks.

To help this operation, USA launched simultaneously amphibious operations near Gibraltar. They liberated Portugal and cut of the african colonies from Europe for some turns to reduce supply levels for axis defenders in Iraq. At the moment the last survivors of this task force are hunted down by axis units...

Axis started a full scale invasion of the british isles now. Transports at the coast from Scapa Flow to London. Fortunately the allied veterans from the french battlefields defend England and all citizens trust in their ability to throw the invaders out of the country despite the last US army has just been destroyed...

Axis forces already took heavy losses - Combined allied ground troops kill 1-2 enemy invaders each turn and hold the landing sites around London free from enemy units.

Next turn its time for the Royal navy to join the battle - Scapa Flow is out of reach for the german Luftwaffe - time to get some transport kills :D .

The question is: where will the russian middle east task force go now - 6 HQs, lots of armies, tanks and airfleets are free for new tasks after the complete victory in the middle east ... smile.gif .

[ November 29, 2003, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

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Well, it´s a long way to Berlin or maybe to Rome...as long as the way to manchester will be.

The german high command will have to divide its taskforces properly.

From some brithsh scientist they got some invading plans of the russians.

- take Suez and poor into the med..with a couple of landing operations

- Capture of Istanbul and attack from the south

- Landing Operation behind the front line in the Black sea

- Landing operation in Sweden

- Frontal assault on the main front

Unfortunately the british scientist was killed by an russian KGB agent....so the high command will not know which plan will be excecuted. But before he died he let us know the secret of LR1 :D Soon everything will be in our range.

One expect the attack of the red army will be soon ...causing at least two further fronts.

The british defence will be a multinational force consisting only of corps.....well not only this bloody canadian army escaped from france with strengh 1...and maybe a french one is also still alive....but only still :D

New messerschmitt´s are built and even the legend Baron von Richthofen joined our ideas.. :D

So hopefully we can soon provide Hitler with some good news..

to be continued

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Well, it´s all over now....the game ended on 1st September 1946 with my defeat. The gaming time came near the 50 hours. It was a very enjoying game...but let´s come to the facts.

As expected russia started it´s offensive on 3 fronts. The targets were

- Suez....Africa

- Schweden

- Southern Russia

Ag his africa operation i had no means to stop it as i needed all my air for sealion. So it was a battle with tanks, HQ, lvl 5 fighters ag corps.

A funny thing in the med was our transport war. My greatest success was the elimination of a tank near Tripoli.

In Sweden several corps landed and cut my supply and took the mines. But just rite in time when Stockholm was surrounded my reinforcements arrived and got rid of the reds.

His main attack was i southern russia which began very slowly but with arrival of additonal fighters from the african taskforce it gained momentum. As i had no armies and no HQ there he could train his untis without a counter from me.

Only later when i saw it´s getting critical i send rundstet to southrussia.

Ok let´s switch to the west now...

My 9 fighters there did the trick i got london and the italians under gariboldi moved slowly towards manchester. Manstein and von Bock were responsible for air cover. The english and americans threw all into the battle they had. In the battle for each bloody hex i had to face many counters where he used new built tanks and armies (maybe sold research??) But finally i got london with a high tech italian taskforce (lvl 13)..

Meanwhile in the east...

Rundstet could not hold the russians and ordered retreat...which his forces performed perfectly hex for hex. Later Manstein was assigend to help in the east and also the first two airunits were moved to the east. But anyway with the fall of manchester to russians stood 3 hex from Warsaw.

Some italians corps under Balbo took positions in the mountains south. Soon i had to realize that the russians are to strong now. Even full entrenched armies were no problem for them. Therefore i stopped building armies and built only corps. The air war was also a lost case as all my air from the west had only 3-4 strengh points although the were 3 and 4 star unis. I was always on defence and this interception battles costed to much MPP for me. Meanwhile i had MPP disadvantage despite the capture of GBP.

During this main operation Terif put pressure everywhere... in the med lots of corps transports were looking for a save heaven. :D again landing operation in Sweden etc.... Lots of americans joined the russians in the east. Some were the remaining forces from the british island and some came via Suez?..

My italian special forces taskforce :D took position arround Berlin. As the russian took no unit losses he had just to reinforce and this for at least 20-30 rounds....he used his MPP to built a trementous airfleet. He shoot on everything he doesnt like :D . Gariboldi escaped with strengh 2 after 10 airstrikes. The front bordering rumania broke and the reds flooted into the back.

I established the next defence line behind the next river. Meanwhile this heroic italians could hold Berlin for many rounds. This army in berlin survived at least 50 airattacks in sum. It was awarded with the "iron cross".

But finally Berlin fell in July 46 and the italians took positions in all major cities to get the MPP in case of a german surrender. The best units retreated to rome.

Germany didn´t surrender immediately, so i built another defence line from Hamburg down to italy, some units evacuated to england under command of von leeb my last surviving HQ.

To conquer italy there was obviously not enough time left...therefore Terif placed his hole airflottilia near italy and one transport beside rome. He hit this army in rome with 16 or 17 airfleets!!!! and i think it was the last one which killed my unit.

Italy immediately surrendered :( but germany still not. Vokssturmuntits guarded all important cities...but on September 1st 1946 it was over.

It was the first time a saw this victory screen :D


It was really the hell of a game. I had a good start, the fall of Paris in Aug was ok for me.

Minors picking i did in a personal record time and the plunder i received was above average.

I invested my chits in the following order...

1) 2 tech

2) 1 anti air

3) 2 jet

4) 1 LR

5) 1 tank

6) 2 jet

7) 1 jet

When reaching levl 5 jet i put 1 chit in antitank.

I reached the following levls


Inf 1

AA 2

Tank 2

LR 1

Jet 5

tech 2


Inf 3

tech 1

It was my best game so far. But it was not perfect and ag Terf you have to be perfect. I did some minor mistakes but they would not have changed to outcome of the game. One of my major mistakes was the attempt to turn an already lost airwar....to much MPP spent into this project. Maybe more groundunits would have given me the couple of turns which were needed to win.

But the most decinsive fault was the following....

I preparation for the coup in yougoslavia i moved units from sweden to former poland. I always have 4 units in poland...

On arrival of this two armies i moved two of my corps out of this 3 hex range (4 hex away). so i had now again 4 units but something was wrong with the positioning. So far i can remember i had two units in the cities and this two armies were 2 and 3 hex from the border.

This mistake increased russian warreadyness from 57 to 70% ....so they entered the war 2-3 rounds earlier. I´m not the one who says ..what were if....but i think Terif will admit without this mistake i would have propably won.

The difference were 1000-1500 russian MPP, 1000-1500 german points for prepartion. None of the bordering units would have survived..and i have stopped my advance at minsk not before...

Ok that´s it

Thank you very much for this great game Terif...i enjoyed all 180.000 seconds :D of this game equal if it was my turn or yours. We will have to do another game as it´s only one part of our 2nd mirror game isnt´t it? But now i need a short break ....as i ´m sooooooooo frustrated. :(:D

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There´s not much to add to Dragonhearts update. It was a really great and enjoyable game smile.gif .

Our transport war was really funny. We both had no cruisers or battleships in the middle Atlantic or Med, so we used our transports to fight against each other, it was seldomly possible to move a transport without a surprise contact with an enemy transport... After some "contacts" my tank transport reached a position west of Tripoli, the next target after Tobruk had been conquered by the african task force.

After the landing the tank group was destroyed one turn too early, so the attack at Tripoli failed and Russia decided to retreat to Tobruk and move task force Africa to southern Russia.

1 turn after our last report, the last big naval battle took place around Scapa Flow when UK ships started killing transports there: Axis lost their sub and a carrier, UK lost 2 carrier and a battleship. The last german ship survived some more turns, but the cruiser was destroyed shortly before the fall of England. At the end neither Allies nor Axis had a single ship left, everyone at the bottom of the sea - a very efficient use of the naval units from both sides :D .

After all UK airfleets and 2 carriers were dead, UK sold all research chits from Jets. But it was no problem to finance armies and tanks anyway: UK got 226 mpp/turn (Bergen, Egypt and Iraq provided 120 mpp...). They only had Montgomery to command their units, so they decided to buy tanks and armies instead of corps - USA delivered one corps/turn, the Island was overcrowded anyway...Near the end, UK didnt know where to spend all their mpps, there was no place to build additional ground units, so they even reinforced a battleship and the carrier to make some interception battles and do something useful with the surplus mpps...

After UK surrended in June 1945, americans hold Ireland, Bergen, Edinburgh and Scapa Flow + Liberated Portugal once again. They soon had to evacuate from England and 2 HQs and several corps moved via Denmark to Russia to help in the battle for Germany. A lot of armies were transported via Suez and operated north. USA delivered ground units, Russia was responsible for the air war smile.gif .

Russia had to fight for every Hex from Kiev to Berlin. A lot of german armies died in the defence and counterattacks. It was a bloody war with 1-3 interceptions each turn (both sides Lv5 !). 2 out of the 6 russian airfleets were on repair each turn, fortunately they were able to use nearly all mpp for the airfleets...

When russian armies reached Warsaw, only one german army and one tank group were still alive from the once proud Wehrmacht. The surviving russian armies were mainly 4 star units now.

A quick shift to the south opened the way to Romania and in a surprise attack russian corps broke through and occupied both oilfields - all russian tanks died a long time ago on the way to Berlin ;) . One turn later Romania surrendered in August 1945. It was the beginning of the End.

Then it went quickly: Hungary and Bulgaria surrendered in September 1945, Istanbul were taken simultaneously. Russian forces broke through around Warsaw, cut of the entrenched last german tank, destroyed it some turns later and soon reached the outskirts of Berlin.

In the meantime russian airforce increased from 6 to 11 airfleets. The russian commander wanted the quick end since it was near 1946 and ordered the air bombardment of Berlin. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to kill a 4 star entrenched strength 13 italian unit supported by a 4 star HQ...expected losses were somewhere between 3-0 to 5-0 in favour of the defender...Many shot down and burning planes in the fields around Berlin showed the misjudgement of the russian air commander. He was dismissed and shot immediately and replaced by a new commander.

The doctrine changed to a "suround the capital" strategy: airfleets killed the units around the capital and units moved into the gaps. It was very bloody and half a dozen corps and armies paid with their lives for this strategy. But fortunately mainly US forces were used as cannon fodder, so russian high command was pleased with the results as it saved russian lives :D .

During the Berlin siege combined US and russian forces achieved a breakthrough in Hungary. The threat of beeing cut off forced most Axis units to withdraw from Yugoslavia and southern Balkan. So Yugoslavia has been liberated in March 1946.

Finally the surounding of Berlin was complete - even Hamburg had been captured to attack from the other side - and the final attack at Berlin began: 4 armies + 1 corps attacked from the ground and some airfleets removed the last defenderes from the city: Berlin conquered by Russia in Mid 1946 ! Rom fell some turns later in a firestorm of heavy bombs from something around 20 russian airfleets now...

Unconditional surrender of all Axis forces at September 1, 1946.

Tech Level + chits:


Anti-tank Lv2 (2 chits)


LR Lv 1 (1-2 chits)

Jets Lv 2 (2-3 chits)

Gun Laying Radar Lv 3 (1 chit)


AT Lv 1 (3 chits, sold at lv1 after most enemy tanks were destroyed)

Jets Lv 5 (5 chits)

LR Lv 3 (4 chits, sold when reaching Germany)

Axis made the mistake with the russian readiness, but UK lost some airfleets unnecessarily when Germany moved its airfleets to France... 4 airfleets to have or not to have is also a big difference ;) . Besides this, both sides made only minor mistakes and Dragonheart played very good.

Overall, it was an excellent and enjoyable game. I hope our next one will be as much fun as this great one.

BTW: it was already the 2nd part of our mirror game (I already had Axis), so you have some time to recover :D . But its no problem to start a new PanzerLiga game smile.gif .

[ December 01, 2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

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