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PLEASE MAKE THIS AN OPTION


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First, i love the game and think its going to be great.... there is just one thing, if i'm in command of the AXIS from the onset of WW2 then you MUST have an open time line, by this i mean being able to play into the 1950's and later.

you cant make a game on this scale and size and hold the player to a set time period, its not very realistic, i want to rewrite history not relive it. Its an important feature that most games like this forget, dont make the same mistake , i'd PAY twice the price to have this feature. if its not there then this game wont give the player the real control of the game that a large scale wargame needs.

i'm not trying to slam the game, i think its great that there are games like this still being made, i just want to offer this piece of info before the game is FINAL.

thank you

SAVARD.

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I don't think you need a completely open timeline, but '46 may be cutting it a bit too close. Based on the demo games I've been playing PBEM, I don't think that'll be long enough. If the Germans can do well enough at the start, then they can definitely be competative past '46. And I know the next argument will be, "But the US would have just nuked them if it went later." Probably, but who's to say if the Germans had done well enough, that they wouldn't have been able to get their intercontinental missles and bombers into production? Or developed Nukes of their own? Like the poster above mentioned, if you're going to play "What if" you have to play it from all sides, not just the most convenient one. Now, if this is an issue with the code that can't be changed, I understand, but if it's something that can be changed without too terribly much hassle, then I think it needs to be changed.

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I agree that too much of a time limit puts unnecessary pressure on the Germans. But 1950 seems to be pushing it. 1948 would be plenty long enough, I feel. Make it too long (i.e. open ended), and it takes away from the tension.

And to go along with this, shouldn't there be some sort of surrender? Maybe not for the AI (it's sometimes fun to crush them to the last man), but for PBEM. Something better than just sending "I quit" in the email. Possibly with a pop up screen saying your opponent has surrendered?

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Originally posted by SAVARD:

First, i love the game and think its going to be great.... there is just one thing, if i'm in command of the AXIS from the onset of WW2 then you MUST have an open time line, by this i mean being able to play into the 1950's and later.

you cant make a game on this scale and size and hold the player to a set time period, its not very realistic, i want to rewrite history not relive it.

At this scale certain realities such as Germany being bled white aren't as well dealt with. By limiting time, you recognize that there's no way that any of the combatants could have fought on. Every combatant country was exhausted by 1945 and Europe was in ruins. How do you reconcile that reality no matter how a game goes?

If any country is allowed to happily build units nad send replacement indefinately then you end up with a much more unrealistic consideration than an arbitrary end date.

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Originally posted by Compassion:

At this scale certain realities such as Germany being bled white aren't as well dealt with. By limiting time, you recognize that there's no way that any of the combatants could have fought on. Every combatant country was exhausted by 1945 and Europe was in ruins. How do you reconcile that reality no matter how a game goes?

If any country is allowed to happily build units nad send replacement indefinately then you end up with a much more unrealistic consideration than an arbitrary end date.

Valid arguement, but if Germany had done better (Taking out Russia, or knocking them beyond the Urals) Then I think that it could have gone on a lot longer before the manpower reserves were exhausted. With all of Europe under their control, there were men to be found, and I doubt the British and Americans would have just given up. America had plenty of manpower reserves, and would likely (Probably unsuccessfully) have tried to liberate Europe. I agree with R_Leete, 1948 would be plenty long enough, if there's no decision by then there probably won't be one.
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Forgive me if this has probably been covered but how about adding colored dots on the overview map to keep track of all units? Also, I have a better time thinking of the naval units as battlegroups arranged around the particular capital unit named, so, how about organizing naval units as surface/carrier action groups & sub wolf packs instead of individual units? Good game concept & I am enjoying the demo so far. Thanks,

Dale H

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I don't think the game should go past '45.

"Why?" you ask, well it's because if I don't conquer Europe by early spring '45, I can look forward to a very hot, (and nuclear), summer.

[ May 27, 2002, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Otto ]

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When beta-testing this baby, I never had a game last any longer than '45 anyway, so I don't think this will be a problem. smile.gif

It's easy enough for Hubert to change this, so I suggest you wait and play the full game before you set your mind in stone about this (and other).

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This question brings up another. How does the game end?

Hopefully their is a summary screen like Steel Panthers that reviews your status. I do not want to play 4-5 hours and have the game end by saying "YOU WON". That stinks.

I'd like to see some type of scoring system for end game. This would greatly enhance REPLAYABILITY. Thanks

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Since people have different opinions about the ending year, why not just making it an option. If one wants to play indefinitely what is the harm in that. After all this is only a simple game and doesnt have much to do with reality. Most people aren't interested in repeating history they want to try and change what happened. What ifs are fun to alot of gamers.

I like more options. That way each gamer can make up his own mind about the parameters.

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What would be absurdly cool would be a little history of your progress. People remember how Alpha Centauri tracked your progres across the planet and you could watch the rise and fall of empires at the end of the game?

Something like that, but better. Have a pre-written paragraph for every " go to war" and "Conquer" possibility with some variables like time frame of conquest, etc, put in, and then align them in chronological order at the end of the game.

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What, exactly, are the end game parameters? Other than running out of time, what constitutes victory? As the Allies, I assume it means taking Berlin. As an aside, do Italy and some of the minor powers defect to neutral or the allied side, if things are going badly for the Axis? When do the Allies give it up? Do you have to take every capital to win?

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Originally posted by Otto:

I don't get it, how can everyone go on about extending the game and not even mention the A-Bomb. If as an Axis player, you don't end the game my mid '45, Fat Man and Little Boy will.

Ummm...did you not read my post above? If you're doing a "What if" like this game is, you have to do it from all sides. In my world, perhaps the Germans take out Russia in '41. Then spend a couple of years working out the kinks in their intercontinental missle and bombers. Perhaps they even get their own atomic capability. Now, if you're President Truman or FDR, do you approve an A-bomb attack on Germany when you know that the end result is going to be bombing/missle/atomic attacks on your east coast?

And if England is taken out...how exactly are you going to deliver these bombs to Germany? Based out of where? The B-29 is not exactly a STOVL aircraft.

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Originally posted by Otto:

I don't get it, how can everyone go on about extending the game and not even mention the A-Bomb. If as an Axis player, you don't end the game my mid '45, Fat Man and Little Boy will.

1. Why do you assume this being static while all other things (including research) are fluid and allow for alternate developments in the game?

2. The whole thing is a gameplay issue, anyway, and not an issue of being slavishly true to actual history.

3. It is a highly debated issue of whether the early production rate of US atomic bombs could have been decisive against a foe who is not yet on the brink of defeat anyway.

That said, I think Hubert told us that the actual game ends somewhere in 1946 - which leaves enough room for almost all campaigns IMO. There should be indeed *some* penalties for not being on time: so if I donĀ“t manage to conquer Berlin until 1946, well then it is my own fault. smile.gif

Straha

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Originally posted by Otto:

I don't get it, how can everyone go on about extending the game and not even mention the A-Bomb. If as an Axis player, you don't end the game my mid '45, Fat Man and Little Boy will.

Not if the Germans drop nerve gas on London.
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And another what-if that would need a longer time period: What-if, as allies, after defeating nazi germany (or even before that), you actually decide to go further east and oust the commies out of Russia? (I understand this game is based loosely on world war two when it comes to what happens when, but hey, why not?) :D

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Originally posted by Lars:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Otto:

I don't get it, how can everyone go on about extending the game and not even mention the A-Bomb. If as an Axis player, you don't end the game my mid '45, Fat Man and Little Boy will.

Not if the Germans drop nerve gas on London.</font>
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Originally posted by Lars:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Otto:

I don't get it, how can everyone go on about extending the game and not even mention the A-Bomb. If as an Axis player, you don't end the game my mid '45, Fat Man and Little Boy will.

Not if the Germans drop nerve gas on London.</font>
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Originally posted by Rodimzew:

and at least not if london and britain is captured since 1940.where should all these enola gays start before 1950 when the first real strategic bombers were developed ? ...

Leaving aside the game related debate - Who says the B-29s had to get back. Did the B-29 have enough legs to make a one-way trip to Europe from CONUS carrying one of the early nukes? In wartime there is usually no shortage of young guys willing to die to be a hero - just ask Doolittle :(

Regards

JonS

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First off, great game!! I love the demo! Reminds me of an old favorite board game of mine called "Axis & Allies" except that this is more in depth. I love it!

However, I agree with the original poster. I also agree with the reasoning many people gave.

We are playing this game to re-write history. Suppose I'm playing the Axis and I'm not content with just Europe? Suppose I wanna go on and try something crazy like land in Canada or even in Washington? I don't see why the war should end in 1946 if the Axis are still going strong. Some people are stating that it should because the US will just nuke but I think this is dumb because that means no matter what the Allies will always win by default. What's the purpose of the game then if you're going to use logic like that?

At least have an option of allowing an open timeline. That way, the people who want to play with it can and the people who don't, don't. I can't see any harm in making it an option.

I *beg* that you will reconsider this option!

KhanIndustries

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