Defence of Russia

[Maverik]

After reading everything I can find on the Forum I'm still none the wiser on how to defend Russia. Against the computer its easy, but against a human, almost impossible. Launching D-Day about 2 years to early at the same time as putting pressure on the Italians is very difficult. Does anyone know of any better strategies than these? :mad: ?

[Liam]

Defending Russia is quite simple. Look at your front line, look at what the enemy has, look at the MPPs and the amount of units you can devote to a defense.

After the initial enemy assualt you'll be weakened depending on how well the Germans do there that'll dictate a lot, if he manages to take out Oddessa you're going to fall back in the South quite a bit. If you have a decent bid for Allies, you can buy many Units to stuff frontlines with HQs behind them. You want to retreat your Air usually as his will maull it if not. You want to play for an invasion of Finland possibly

Use the Mountains, Marshes, Forests and more importantly Rivers to defend your front. Use plenty of corps in defense and Armor works well on Cities. If you fear encirclement you will need to retreat your units... If you have Zhukov and enough firepower, no need to defend attack

The key the game is the same everywhere. They're just hexes and there's nothing so complicated about attack and defense. I'd prefer not to give the Gerries too much Experience, and trade off a few units before I play purely Defensive, spend a lot of that MPP on Tech and wait till you catch up, send 6-8 Jets to the Front line and hammer your enemy into non existance

if you have a good RAF/USAF and plenty of experience on those UK Carriers life will be getting hard for the Axis quick! So long as Russia doesn't capitulate early

[Maverik]

Thanks Liam.

I guess what your saying is that its only possible with the bidding system. I only play with a friend at present and we don't use it.

I find it easy to defend along the south, its just having enough units in the north to stop him flanking. I guess with extra points that bidding creates that would be possible.

[Liam]

Maverik, corps corps corps and siberian transfer if he gets to close to your 'heartland' entrenchment and the right terrain makes breakthroughs impossible plus a good 2nd front to distract most his forces

[Avatar]

There is a 'perfect' russian defense imo. I could write every little detail here, but I'm not.

The basics are:

- Give up Kiev and Odessa, as they're impossible to defend at the start. Only if Axis has launched a very weak attack are they worth defending.

- Buy 6-7 armor units, 4-5 HQ's, rest corps. Put 1 armor unit into Riga and Minsk. East of Kiev, defend the mine hex, and the adjacent hex with 2 armor units. Germans can only attack either of these positions from only 1 clear hex.

- Keep 2 of your HQ's in Smolensk and Kharkov (very difficult to kill with air), and the other 2-3 a little further back.

- Don't use your air until you are at least 1 jet level within reach of opponent. You can use your air to attack iraqi oil to gain xp (good method), and then later in Turkey.

- Minsk can be very very hard to take if you have forces to counter-attack. That 11str armor unit in Minsk, plus a corps directly north of it, and then 2 armies/tanks covering the 'breakthru' hex. Axis has to use a lot of air taking it.

- Once this Riga-Minsk-Kharkov-Sevastopol line falls, retreat to Leningrad-Moscow-Rostov. Don't defend between Leningrad-Moscow too much, your siberians can activate. Rostov is important, but not that important to defend. Germans will have a tough going this far into russia.

- And lastly, a must for 'russian defence', is the invasion of Finland AND Turkey, both of which should/must be subdued. It's actually much easier than you think.

- Invade Finland turn 2 or 3. Seaborne invasion is better than land, but both work alright. Finland's a piece of cake compared to Turkey. Turkey should be invaded once the western allies have put pressure in France (or somewhere). What you really want to do is not have Turkey surrender, it's nice, but not necessary. You really want the most eastern city (name?), then drive down to the east med coast and cut off iraq and the middle east. Then you take Iraq, etc....

[ October 18, 2004, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Avatar ]

[Maverik]

Originally posted by Avatar:

[QB] Actually, there is a 'perfect' russian defense imo. I could write every little detail here, but I'm not.

- Buy 6-7 armor units, 4-5 HQ's, rest corps. Put 1 armor unit into Riga and Minsk. East of Kiev, defend the mine hex, and the adjacent hex with 2 armor units. Germans can only attack either of these positions from only 1 clear hex.

6-7 armour and 4-5 HQ's? I take it you all bid massive amounts for playing Germany?

[Avatar]

oh yeah. in my games (whether im axis or allies), russia normally gets around 4000-4500 bonus mpps. You're talking around 5500 mpps when russia gets the first turn. However, mpps aren't enough to stop the germans. You also need the right pieces in the right hexes at the right time.

Good axis players WILL get through no matter how solid your defences, but these defenses will buy you the time you need.

[Maverik]

No wonder the allies always get creamed when I play.

What is the best bidding system to use?

1:5:20 or another?

[Kuniworth]

1:1:92 is standard

[Sombra]

Hi Maverik,

1:5:20 is the most common bidding system right now.

Regarding your perfect "defense". You should consider:

Finnland: Axis can easily reinforce Finnland and push in the north to Leningrad.

Turkey: Usally a whole battlegroup of axis forces is already in the south to secure IRak at the beginning of Barbarossa.

An invasion of Turkey you can consider if you have the surprise moment and the axis is heavily engaged in the west. But your setup in Rusia seems only "passive" defense for me". => Axis can choose where to punch and Rsuia is not able to counterattack or build up pressure to relieve the Western allies. Since the axis usally has the MP advantage => (Cookie cutter) you are looking for a scenario where the axis can easily switch fronts when it comes under pressure in the west. They don´t have to worry about the rusians. Corps are great for defense but you need although armies to hit back at the right time.

[Avatar]

Depends how good the Axis player is. A crappy Axis player will lose every time. However, with a good player at the helm, Allies will surely lose without the extra mpps.

If you're both 'good' (not many ppl meet this criteria), bid should be: 1:5:20 (UK:USA:USSR)

Else: 1:8 (UK:USSR)

[Dragonheart]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

1:1:92 is standard

Is this a typing mistake or what the hell is 1:1:92????

[Sombra]

Originally posted by Dragonheart:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kuniworth:

1:1:92 is standard

Is this a typing mistake or what the hell is 1:1:92???? </font>

[Kuniworth]

1:1:92 is the ultimate bidding system.

[Maverik]

Thanks all.

I'll suggest the 1:5:20 system to my friend and try out a few games. Like I said I find that Russia can put up a good defence by hiding behind the Dnieper River and around Smolensk and Kharkov. However there are not enough units or MPP's to keep this line going and the Germans can always smash through between Lenungrad and Smolensk.

Hopefully more MPP's will make for a tougher defence.

[Dragonheart]

Dragonheart, (Traum meiner schlaflosen Nächte ) Since you are a expert in defending Rusia how about a litle input from your side? [/QB]

....Well there is another possiblity too Sombra was a victim of this tactic try only to delay the germans a little bit and put mininum efforts to defend your first defence line.

And then make the defence of your south and moskau to the germans nigthmare. You have saved almost all heavy units....so time to die.

Bah 1:1:92 ....this sounds like 0 8 15 for me which means just a ridicular figure

Up to which Bid you guys go with this Bid? 50? 100?

[Maverik]

Has anyone won a league game as allies without extra MPP's for the allies?

[Kuniworth]

sure but not against experienced player. Axis cookie cutter will kill any non bidding games

[Terif]

Hi Maverik,

For basic informations/strategies (including Russia + Bid System) you can also read my help thread:

Terif's hints for new/intermediate players and basic knowledge SC

Liam and Avatar already gave some good advices concerning Russia .

Liam usually favours an air strategy - but air is perhaps not so important for Russia, more often ground units are the key to victory. Avatars ´perfect´ defence strategy also does not fit for all cases, nevertheless it is a good standard defence - which strategy is the better one in a specific game, highly depends on the axis player, his gameplay and the situation

Bid system:

Between new players there is usually no bid necessary since Axis makes a lot of mistakes often don´t know about readiness or how to conquer neutrals. This often leads to the situation that Allies are even in the advantage.

But after some games (especially against players with some experience) and/or reading in the forum, Axis player knows how to avoid most of the basic mistakes and then Allies need some bonus mpps so both sides have again the same chance to win.

Intermediate players still use the 1:8 or 1:10 system (mpps for UK:Russia) with average bids of 200 (depends highly on the experience of both players, expecially the axis player).

The current Bid system is the 1:5:20 system. Average bids are around 100 (= 100 mpps UK, 500 USA, 2000 Russia) for intermediate players and ~200 for Veterans (200 UK, 1000 USA, 4000 Russia).

In the meantime between really experienced Veterans bids sometimes even go up to 250 .

[ October 18, 2004, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[Bill101]

I prefer to give the UK and France IT level 1 (or 2 if you are feeling adventurous). I don't like giving the UK a ton of MPPs at the start because it often leads to ahistorical situations, especially if the Axis are slow to invade the Low Countries.

I guess it's because I prefer a long, hard fought game to one which might be decided early on.

Another rule is not to allow the Axis to land any units in North America until after the UK has fallen. This:

1) frees up both the Canadian corps and army for use overseas, thus giving the UK a small boost at the beginning.

2) means that the allies don't have to keep moving the Canadian corps around Canada to watch the coast, which must be the only boring aspect of SC (and it really is boring having to watch the Canadian coast!).

Give this a try, with the USA and USSR getting the usual bidding points.

[ October 18, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Bill101 ]

[Aztecace]

Does anyone put any points into Anti-Air tech as the Russians? I would think that would help against the usual massive german air power.

[Maverik]

Thanks again to all who have answered my question.

Lots to think about.

Great to post on a forum were people are willing to help and answer questions that they probably answered many times before, and without smart arse comments.

I was given this game by a friend in a pile of other software, and haven't been able to stop playing it. Here's hoping that SC2 will be even better.

[Bill101]

Originally posted by Aztecace:

Does anyone put any points into Anti-Air tech as the Russians? I would think that would help against the usual massive german air power.

Yes, I always have done. Since the AA radar bug was discovered other people have started doing so too.

The bug is that if your airfleet is based on a resource, and you have AA radar, when it launches an air strike and is intercepted it will benefit from the AA radar in the clash with the enemy airfleet.

However, the intercepting airfleet will not benefit from any AA radar research of their own in this clash.

I should add that it's not because of this bug that I invest in AA. The beauty of AA research is that it makes enemy air attacks on your resources and cities more expensive, while it doesn't cost you a penny!

[ October 18, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Bill101 ]

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

The only correct Russian defence is a winter strategy.

It stopped Napoleon,it stopped Hitler, and it will stop us in SC2.

Oh right you meant this game.

[Tim The Enchanter]

The correct strategy to defeat Belgium is to drive your panzers backwards through their capital while flipping them the bird while vocaly making gun sounds and pointing cocked fingers at them.