Stefan Wennerberg Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 It is almost a show stopper for me that the vast majority of scenario designers refuse to put point total information in the scenario write-up or scenario title. For example, my friends and I wanted to play something that had 8000 pts. or more. We spent HOURS looking through scenarios, decided that there was nothing and started up an operation instead! I know the scenario designers do excellent work and spend hours creating the scenarios. It seem a shame that point total (or approx. total) is not avail. It seems like fundemental information to choose a scenario, kind of like knowing how many turns there are is also criteria for deciding what to play. Can this be corrected somehow? Stefan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 I try to follow the BFC way of putting the point total in the brief description that is shown in the in-game scenario list. The problem with points is, though, that it doesn't tell particularly accurately the size. For example, for 1000 points you can get either a conscript Infantry battalion or a crack Tiger platoon. Difference is huge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Points are kind of immaterial. For example, I can have a 5000 point battle with a mere handful of units, if the units involved are veteran Panthers and T34/85s. On the other hand, I could have the better part of an infantry regiment. If you really need the totals, just look in the editor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 It can be misleading too, especially in an Operation with the points spread in a specific manner over certain Battles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 I always have in the scenario the following piece of info in the "for all briefing" Difficulty: German: Difficult Danish: Challenging Balance: Pro-German German: 1,250 Danish: 900 However some player HATE knowing the exact numbers so I do some scenarios with FOW. You can get a general idea from the size of the scenario, but as WWB points out the actual 'size' can be misleading. Best way is to ask on this forum or look in the editor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Originally posted by Hans: Balance: Pro-German German: 1,250 Danish: 900 However some player HATE knowing the exact numbers so I do some scenarios with FOW.Maybe it'd be a better idea just to give the combined point total, e.g. 2150 pts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emar Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 I find it easier to judge battles and ops by size as this is a true indication of how much muscle power will be required by your computer processor. Since CM rates small, medium, huge ops etc. by the number of units in the scenario, (As this is the number of units it will have to process movement and combat options for) and not the point value of the units which as stated above can vary from a handful to a hundred. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wennerberg Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Emer mentioned judgeing battles by size (i.e., small, medium, large, huge). All that tells you is the size of the map (which is very useful to know). For all you know you could have a "huge" scenario pitting one sniper versus another. The "size" of the scenario is only the map size. That's why I like to see the points (or rough aproximates to preserve FOW) mentioned somewhere. The point system is not perfect but along with the scenario write-up it gives a pretty good idea of what type of units, no. of units etc. that are involved. Without point totals I often have no idea if the scenario is 2 or three battialians in size or if it is one company in size). No info on point totals combined with general/vague scenario write-ups such as: "German battle group opposes Russian Guards Infantary Division near Minsk." provides little information in regards to scale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Originally posted by Stefan Wennerberg: Emer mentioned judgeing battles by size (i.e., small, medium, large, huge). All that tells you is the size of the map (which is very useful to know). It tells the amount of units. For example, one battle I made has several battalions on a 800x800 map. It is ranked as huge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Originally posted by Stefan Wennerberg: Emer mentioned judgeing battles by size (i.e., small, medium, large, huge). All that tells you is the size of the map (which is very useful to know). For all you know you could have a "huge" scenario pitting one sniper versus another. The "size" of the scenario is only the map size. That's why I like to see the points (or rough aproximates to preserve FOW) mentioned somewhere. The point system is not perfect but along with the scenario write-up it gives a pretty good idea of what type of units, no. of units etc. that are involved. Without point totals I often have no idea if the scenario is 2 or three battialians in size or if it is one company in size). No info on point totals combined with general/vague scenario write-ups such as: "German battle group opposes Russian Guards Infantary Division near Minsk." provides little information in regards to scale. Quite, quite wrong. It tells a count of the units. Note that this, too, can be skewed, since things like trenches count as units. So a company with an extensive trench system can rank as a "false" huge. WWB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Agreed, WWB. Also, in operations it's not particularly accurate as you tend to have all sorts of reinforcements and reserves etc. so it is too easy to get 'huge'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emar Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Yes , battle and op "size" is determined by the number of units involved. This includes reinforcements in battles and ops. Learned this when I created my series of medium Gebirgs ops, many of which are exactly one unit short of being rated large. On the flip side an 8k by 8k map with a platoon on each side would be rated tiny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Seems to be that defining map size seperately from the CM size description would be very helpful to those browsing foe scenarios to play. I like playing on large and huge maps with relatively low density so that flank actions are important - now you have explained it is on unit count I am in some sort of limbo as to what a scenario description really relates to!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 So how does a 3760 x 2320 map sound with 31,000 total points? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wennerberg Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 Determined to prove my point, I created a huge map with one sniper hunting another, no other forces. It was NOT rated Huge as I expected. If memory serves me correctly, it was rated tiny. I also did a scenario on a 800 x 800 map with 20,000 pts. worth of armour (per side) and it was rated huge. So it does turn out that my post on 9/14/04 is completely wrong. I appreciate your setting me straight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emar Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Happens to all of us. Going back to your original query operation or battle size will give you a better estimate of what you are getting into when you choose a scenario than a point total will. Happy hunting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Perhaps......should we be puting in the map size, ie 1,200 x 800 in the initial briefing? Should we put in number of units (1 tank or1 squad equals one unit) line items in troops? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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