Looking for "Frozen" Loken...

[tooz]

I have been playing an op named "Kursk, Psel River III" and I think it is very good. However, despite having it in my scenarios folder I can no longer find it at the Scenario Depot, Boots and Tracks, Der Kessel or my favorite site--The Proving Grounds.

So, what's up? What has happened to it? I have some very positive feedback to provide and would like to submit an AAR. However, I now have no venue for this.

[frozen]

Hey Tooz,

I ordered a board game called "Combat Kursk: Clash Along the Psel 1943"(still waiting on the game). Figuring I would be re-doing the maps (hopefully nothing more than a few tweaks here and there) for Psel I, II, III, I pulled them off PG. If you could post the AAR here that would be great, or you can just email me your suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them.

[GJK]

Wow, I say give Tooz a medal for going above and beyond the call of duty to get his AAR to you. Good job Tooz!

[tooz]

"If you could post the AAR here that would be great, or you can just email me your suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them."--Frozen

You got it! I'm playing your Op now, battle two. Once you get your copy of your Kursk game, feel free to use me as a "pre-playtester" before you submit your work. My email is in the profile.

I starting playing this op because I needed a break from the desert. Well, I got it. Now, here is what got me hooked: when I first played Battle #1 I got my butt kicked badly. Quit, delete, retry--same result. I was ready to give up on this, dismissing it as "an unbalanced dog". However, I am either too stubborn or obsessive compulsive (either is okay)to quit. So, now I am on my third attempt and really like the game.

SPOILER WARNING.................................

The at start is unique--I never expected to find S-35s at Kursk. If your sources say so, then they say so. If not, fine--I like their inclusion. Then there are the MkIIIs with guns that opposing infantry laugh at. How the hell am I supposed to get across the river with this assortment of covering fire? No HMGs, no arty, just two extremely fragile SPW 251/2s. Having Pioneers only as my infantry did not fill me with encouragement. For me "Panzer Pioneers" are "Pussy Pioneers". :mad: :mad: In fact, in CM I have found Engineers to be the least brave. They also take forever to clear a minefield (these are my experiences, if others think opposite, well then "goody for you" ).

So, the first battle I tried to move my infantry through the large gully in the left center of the map. Another platoon hoped to use the wheatfield for cover. I probe with my AC, and hunt with my armor.

Turn 1: Russian arty finds me, disaster. Half of my men are "spinning" or running away. I tried to lay as much smoke (which is not much) as possible, to no avail.

The following turns were an excercise in futility--my tanks get picked off (some it seems, by ATR fire) one by one. There is little--very little cover.

Turn 5, half of my tanks lost, NONE of my Pioneers will get out of "sneak" mode. End game one. Quit, delete, restart.

The second playing was similar--despite my best efforts at hiding everyone, the borg spotter nails me again. My attack, still down the gully with some changes bogs down. Now I'm drinking heavily (and feeling better). Quit, delete.

THIRD TRY: Ahhh, now I know what to do. I mass the attack on the right flank, bounce the river at the two fords to the far right and get my toe hold. I also discover that the soft ground that I fear only causes ONE AFV to bog (which frees itself battle #2). I'm across the river in some strngth, and now I have a good jump off point for battle #2.

BATTLE #2 Ah, NOW I have the support I need. I LOVE having a Brummbar. I am currently on Turn 6, and now I am LOVING IT!!!

Hence my efforts to track you (Frozen Lokin) down and let you know what I think. This op went from "sucked!" :mad: to "cool as hell".

More feedback coming. You can tell if a design is good or not by your eagerness to get back to playing that game.

Keep me posted on the future edition. Thanks for giving me a lot of entertainment! :cool:

[frozen]

Tooz,

S-35, no on the source. I wanted a light tank, something dif. than a I or II, with the ACs going up in flames so much. I have to say, the 35 is now my favorite tank'ete. Troops can jump on it, it rolls through barb wire, over trenches, takes some punishment, and as a scout I find it extremely useful.

I debated on the IIIs. N or J. I went with J for the scouts. OoB lists IIIs in 3SSPz in some quantity (includ. N), but most of the photos i've seen look like the 50mm type.

As I started testing, I measured my success in 10s of meters. Umm got a bit farther that time, using the left, or hmmm lets try pushing everything right. The idea of reaching the village, seemed far off, and gaining some sort of foothold on the NE side of the river was my only goal.

Lack of cover:

In the beginning, there are four places to hide (vehicles). Anything, anywhere else is subject to gain the attention of the arty crew at the start.

Anything ya can send on your experience is welcomed. I'll be curious as to your progress in battle #2. I will send you a copy of an update, when the board game shows up, and I end up changing the map a bit.

Side-note: My fav is to push the middle, putting the pioneer sqd in the creek-bed north of the road, hide the SPWs in the woods behind the houses, running the light tanks up the road. I hold the Recon Plt. back somewhere out of the way (using the HQ to spot for the SPWs), with the idea they will serve as the front of any foothold i get for the start of battle 2.

During one test a pioneer squad jumped off a tank, ran forward while throwing a satchel charge at the mine field in front of them, I had to wipe away a tear at that..... it was so unlike them.

[ August 18, 2004, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: frozen ]

[tooz]

Frozen...forgot to include these figures after Battle #1:

Men OK: 126

Total casualties: 11

Men KIA: 6

Vehicles Lost: 2

ANOTHER SPOILER WARNING.....................

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The second battle is nearly over (up to Turn 16). The AI hid its units (kept them out of site, many ? locations--despite the close proximity of friendly troops, odd) until Turn 10. Once revealed--or exposed, I was able to unleash a torrent of 105/150 SPG fire at these locations, reducing each in turn. I am now astride the road at the top of the hill, ready to head to town. The Stugs and MkIIIs are coming up and so far I have only seen a few ATGs (light guns, still not identified), ACs and thankfully, no Russian armor, save for the occasional HT. I am winning.

On the right flank my Somuas are plodding forward, covering my infantry who are advancing trench by trench. I am moving one platoon closer to the center to get flanking fire on the AIs MLR. Confidence is high. I am sure to have a good setup for the last battle and the two VLs will be within easy reach.

Can't wait to get back to it, but,...er,...uh, the Mrs is telling me that I MIGHT be spending to much time on this game.

NAH!

Good fun!

[tooz]

Battle two ended with these totals:

Men OK: 236

Total Casualties: 33

Men KIA: 23

Vehicles Lost: 5

SPOILER WARNING................................

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The Germans win a Tactical Victory. Final Tallies:

Axis / Allies

Men OK 134 / 181

Total Casualties 136 / 425

Men KIA 45 / 150

Captured 0 / 2

Mtrs Destroyed 0 / 5

Guns Destroyed 0 / 4

Pillboxes Destroyed 0 / 3

Vehicles Lost 16 / 12

Frozen, despite your reworking of this design--I had a lot of fun playing it! I actually feared I would lose, but on the last turn I switched the Russian VL to neutral, thereby giving me (I think this is why I got a victory) the tactical victory. I was hoping for no worse than a draw.

All of my Stugs and Wespes ran out of HE ammo by the time this game ended. I lost a lot of troops and was hard pressed to make any progress in the latter stages of the fight. The Russians are tough.

SUGGESTIONS: Keep the Somuas, maybe give the SS some more infantry--since Pioneer squads only hold 6 men, these guys wither away quickly, and reduce the number of Ampoulets. I think the Russian infantry have more than enough AT weapons--three of my tanks were immobilized and one Stug and one MkIII was KOed by ampoulets. In all of my research on the Russian Front I just never found anything that would suggest that the Russians used a lot of these weapons.

I liked this op very much. I found it HIGHLY entertaining. Now I await the "rewrite".

[frozen]

Tooz,

Thanks for taking the time to play, and post your results, when I do the map review I will re-examine the battle elements. Men-wise I feel the Russians are set, but there AT, AC, AFV contingent has been the area of rework. The 52d at this stage has taken a beating, their tanks have been attached else where, but they have plenty of previously attached (AT & Arty) units where I can put in remnants for this battle, and of course as a semi-his op, there is some flexibility. The flaming vodka bottle throwers: I saw a picture of 3 of them, side-by-side, in a ditch (at Kursk), and I thought they sounded cool when they fired (Ka-chunk, Ka-chunk). I've never actually read anything of their use. They were the secret weapon, lol.

The Germans: I feel (and your notes support) the Germans are sort of the reverse. I see the armor side being pretty well set. The inf. is where the work is needed. More Pioneers vs. inf. platoons for two reasons: time delays in getting the mines removed with a squad or two and if that squad(s) were taken out, getting across the river seemed unlikely (without a friendly map placement after a battle). So I'll give that a look when I get the board game. 'Eicke' gets assigned the responsibility for getting the bridgehead, but the AAR for that day shows 'Thule' leapfrogged over to hill 226.6. So there is some room on what can be in the semi-his op.

Questions:

1. Did the one German plane make an appearance? Whom did he bomb, you or them?

2. I've taken out the Russian 76mm regiment guns, as I am sure you noticed the AI can pretty much see everything of yours and the combination of the 76 and mortars caused numerous problems for the Germans (right now the mortars have 1/2 there ammo). Any thoughts on that, most of the maps I have show a arty unit on the backside of the hill. But for playability, the current conditions are set.

3. The map used to be smaller, not so much space east space around the village. The size increase was due to the type of op, it scrolled at first. Now its static flags. Any thoughts? Thinking about shrinken it, although I think this allows for some room for a 2 player game.

4. Did the 45mm AT guns get any kills? The idea was to get a side shot at close range.

For me its usually,

Battle One: Umm things aren't going so well.

Battle Two: Things are going great.

Battle Three: Maybe I can win.

PS: How can 60% weakened troops with no tanks, two small at guns, hold up the German advance so well....It keeps me playing because it frustrates me that they do so well...

Thanks again.

[tooz]

Frozen, can't recall ANY plane making an appearance in any of the battles. I am certain I would have noticed if one would appear. No noise, no shadow.

One 45 ATG killed one Stug IIIG and two halftracks.

I would reduce the number of Molotov projectors--not eliminate them.

If the 76 regimental gun was there, might as well put it in. Then maybe add a MkIIIN to the opening German OB? They'll need SOME support.

I'd keep the map as is. The Germans need the space to maneuver.

Again, you can email me your next draft when it's ready. I look forward to playingthe revised edition.