Tero Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Is there any plans to implement this feature to the TacAI in CMBB ? As things stand vehicles under TacAI either duke it out to the end or pull back without firing a single shot. That makes ambushes by the more fragile AT vehicles unrealistic when they either stand and die or pull back without taking the one shot they could take by surprise while still unspotted. [ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: tero ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Normally if they are facing in the right direction and have some chance of hitting there target they will take a shot before pulling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I think it was discussed before, but I cant get the search engine to work... I also think that how the ambush or hide command currently works is less than perfect. I just played game where I hid a 75mm Inf gun in some light woods. A Sherman rumbles along the street. I unhide the gun and with the first shot it kills the Sherm. Great! The tank crew never knew what hit them. But hey! What are those jerks doing now??? the gun starts firing at some infantry crossing a field some 700m away, telling the enemy "hallo! We're here! Come and get us!!" Result: onboard and offboard arty quickly knock out the gun. Why can't we issue an order like "destroy THIS target, then hide again. Do NOT engage anything else unless it is a SERIOUS threat!!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted July 10, 2001 Author Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stixx: Normally if they are facing in the right direction and have some chance of hitting there target they will take a shot before pulling back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In a recent QB I was driving a Churchill up a village road and my opponent complained later that a Marder just pulled back without firing at shot even if it was in a position to take a perfect shot. I have had similar experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Yeah I'm not arguing that it DOESN'T happen but......I don't see it as so much of a problem compared to the AT gun Hide/Ambush/Fire argument Parrabellum just bought up. The fact that as soon as you un hide your AT guns they fire at every living thing until Arty blows them away is a much bigger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I feel your pain brother. Ambushes never work like one would want them too. It seems simple, but the coding of it is another thing. I don't think BTS can afford to dedicate resources to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted July 10, 2001 Author Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stixx: Yeah I'm not arguing that it DOESN'T happen but......I don't see it as so much of a problem compared to the AT gun Hide/Ambush/Fire argument Parrabellum just bought up. The fact that as soon as you un hide your AT guns they fire at every living thing until Arty blows them away is a much bigger problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree completely. Then there is the case of the Amazing Perpetually Target Switching gun/cannon.... which usually ends up dead when some unit fires back when it just sits there targeting, preferably at a 90º+ arc, but not deciding what it is going to fire at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Yeah that can be quiet ammusing to watch. The 88mm Pillboxs seem to be a sucker for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ParaBellum: Why can't we issue an order like "destroy THIS target, then hide again. Do NOT engage anything else unless it is a SERIOUS threat!!".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, imagine another sherman rolling in after the first one. But it hasn't seen you, so the gun stays quiet and the sherman passes the killzone. Or if it's supposed to shoot at big targets, what's big? A halftrack? A mortar halftrack? Should the gun stay hidden. How about a simple plain mortar? Stay hidden until the grenades start falling? I don't hink there's an easy way for the AI to decide what's worth shooting at. And yes, it pisses me off too when an AT gun blows it's ambush against an infantryman passing through the marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Well, imagine another sherman rolling in after the first one. But it hasn't seen you, so the gun stays quiet and the sherman passes the killzone. Or if it's supposed to shoot at big targets, what's big? A halftrack? A mortar halftrack? Should the gun stay hidden. How about a simple plain mortar? Stay hidden until the grenades start falling? I don't hink there's an easy way for the AI to decide what's worth shooting at. And yes, it pisses me off too when an AT gun blows it's ambush against an infantryman passing through the marker.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The simple solution is to have units under ambush orders to return to their ambush order after they knock out their target. Then, if another Shermans drives through the ambush, the gun will engage that one also, but not the infantry 700m away. Doesn't solve the problem of infatry tripping an AT ambush, but it does solve the probelm of your AT gun losing its concealment because it is shooting at other targets far away. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: The simple solution is to have units under ambush orders to return to their ambush order after they knock out their target. Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> BTS is getting rid of the ambush command for CM2. The covered arc/distance solution will replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I admit that it would be too hard to have the TacAI make these decisions...BUT.... The two problems could be nicely addressed by two simple user-operated features: add an "ARMOR/VEHICLE" and a "AMBUSH ZONE" criteria: if ARMOR/VEHICLE is selected on, then the unhiding gun will only engage armor or vehicles after it has thrown it's cloak. if not then just like now it'll keep firing at any targets it sees after uncloaking. if AMBUSH ZONE is selected ON then the gun after unhiding and destroying the first target to cross the ambush zone will engage only targets that wander through the AMBUSH ZONE. If it is set to OFF then any targets anywhere which are visible will be engaged. think about the possibilities these two added features would add in combination. for example, if you want that gun to cover that road from any tanks passing by, put an ambush marker there, select ARMOR/VEHICLE and AMBUSH ZONE both ON, and the gun will only engage tanks passing that spot; the gun will revert to hidden status after it destroyed these targets, etc. since these are user-operated options, there's no need for any extensive TacAI programming. [ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Steve has said they will introduce SOPs when they rewrite the engine. Until then we'll just have to see how "covered arc" works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: The simple solution is to have units under ambush orders to return to their ambush order after they knock out their target. Then, if another Shermans drives through the ambush, the gun will engage that one also, but not the infantry 700m away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, you knock out the Sherman. The other Sherman 200 meters further south spots your gun and starts blasting. Your gun doesn't retun fire until it's too late to do anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Well, imagine another sherman rolling in after the first one. But it hasn't seen you, so the gun stays quiet and the sherman passes the killzone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My post referred more to the behaviour of guns using the "hide" command. I've not been very lucky with the "ambush" command, so I prefer to hide my guns and target them manually. So, in my example I would like my gun to engage the tank, hopefully killing it. Then hide again, if there's no serious threat. If another tank spots the gun and opens fire, OK, the gun may self-defend itself. If a mortar detects the gun, OK... But in most cases my guns fire one, two shots, destroying their targets without giving away their location. In these cases I really would like to see them going back to "hide". As Hofbauermentoined already, I would like to see a "engage tanks/vehicles only" order in CM 2. [ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: ParaBellum ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Yeah, a kill-only-vehicles order would seem to be useful. At least I can't think of anything against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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