Stalins Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 The perenial question for CM2: Did T-35's ever see combat? Check http://history.vif2.ru/library/archives/losses/losses1.html apparently yes - if you can wade through the dozens abandoned due to transmission breakdown there are several recorded as being knocked out by enemy, and one said to have run out of ammo. Three are noted as having been destroyed "Ptich'e village, knocked out during attack" on 30/6/41. Now wouldn't it be nice to have that as a scenario - 3 (maybe more??) T35's attacking (defending??) together?! [ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: Mike the bike ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 I think the main issue with NOT including these, as BTS has stated (actually, it was KwazyDawg who mentioned this) is the difficulty in modeling all those turrets. Dont ask me why, im not a programmer, but Kwazy said that it could be done but would take a big long while. Since T-35's saw SOME but not a LOT of combat, they arent that critical. I'd like to see them myself, just for the coolness factor of all those guns, but as BTS has said about ANY new features, it must pass the following rules: 1. Is the feature "COOL"? Obviously something can be "cool" and fail every single question below. But if the feature isn't very interesting, then why bother? 2. Does it add something SIGNIFICANT to the game as a whole? The key word is SIGNIFICANT. 3. Is it TECHNICALLY possible to do even for the high end systems? This is CM specific [and also programming specific] 4. Is it something that is likely to INCREASE sales significantly? Yes, if we are talking about investing a lot of time/money into something, it had better have some sort of payback. Otherwise... why bother? 5. Can it be done without HARMING the game itself? There are only so many hours in the day and dollars in our pocket, so if we have to make sacrifices it had better be damned important. 6. Overall, how much EFFORT will be spent on how much of a percentage of the customer base? The more effort, and the fewer people that can use it, the less reason to do it. "Make it optional" - a reasonable request only if it is no sweat off our nose to do it. For E.g., Dynamic Lighting would probably take several months of coding just so 10% of the customers MIGHT be able to use it. A no starter from the get go. We have said …. that we will be improving Combat Mission, graphically as well as in every other aspect OVER TIME. But there is only so much that can be done at once. Despite my own feelings for the inclusion of the T-35, it only really passes #1, the "Coolness Factor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Author Share Posted April 30, 2001 Oh stop being so bloody analytical or I'll have to send you out the back of Lubiyanka to shoot yourself!! I've seen all the reasons why it isn't going to be there, and I still think that it's a shame that it won't be!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Actually to be honest Mike that list reinforces to me why it wouldnt be a big loss if the T-35 cant make it into CM2. Commissar has what I said a while back about right. If the T-35 goes in it will require quite a bit of coding for this one vehicle alone, due to its many guns with AT capability covering many areas of fire. It could be done, but Id suggest that in the time it would take to code up Charles could have added a dozen other vehicles into the game Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Author Share Posted April 30, 2001 Jeez Dog - not you too??!! Look guys - the question was asked in another thread about whether the T-35 had ever seen actual combat - apparently it has. I did not suggest that BTS should change their mind and include it, but I expressed my opinion that it's a shame they won't be. Now there's 2 thoughts making up that sentiment: 1/ I think it'd be great if it was in the game, and 2/ my acceptance that it ain't going to be.... You guys need to get outside, see the sun, get off your screens for 5 minutes a day!! [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: Mike the bike ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Sorry Mike I just wanted to explain to others whom are not as informed and will certainally read this thread why it is not the highest priority. That sort of thing is what I get paid for here, after all Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 hmm...I don't know why, but the search function doesn't work for me, any one with the same problem ? Now, it isn't exactly in topic of the post but, will the M3 Lee make into CM2 ? It has a 37mm AT gun and a 75mm inf gun, maybe it will be a nightmare for the TacAi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 OMG Dog - u get paid for this too?!! Jrrz, some ppl have all the luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warphead Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 *sniff* I hope I can live with that... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Y'know the reasons given by BTS for not including the T-35 mirror the reasons why the "land-battleships" never took off (pardon the pun) - they were too hard to control for the limited computing resources available to command them!! Life mirrors art yet again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Eyes Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 We've kicked around the 'rare vehicle' topic many times before and the debate always rests on coding time vs value added. I continue to press the compromise that BTS include a few rare vehicles with each release. If the T35 is too time consuming to program, how about the T28? At least one multi-turreted AFV should make the final cut. [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: Snake Eyes ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 T-28, known as "milktrain" among finns is great loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriendlyFire Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snake Eyes: If the T35 is too time consuming to program, how about the T28? At least one multi-turreted AFV should make the final cut. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I suspect the biggest challenge is in the threat-response part of the tactical AI - if you give it multiple big guns, how does it decide which to use on what target, and which way to point the hull? Very tricky problem. Then after you've solved that, you get to teach the strategic AI about this wonderful new toy it's got that may be worth "more" than a single AFV, if it can get LOS to lots of small targets. Equally tricky coding problem. Then after you've coded that all up, testing it is going to be a b*tch, and I bet the people on this board will find LOTS of corner-cases where it does the "wrong thing" (i.e the M3 turns flank-on to a big threat to use its 75mm gun on some little infantry target), so the tweak-test cycle will be very long. Just think back to all the hull-rotation hell that BTS went through. Having said all that, a single-big-gun-turret, lots-of-little-MG-turrets tank *should* be pretty easy to model, since in game logic terms it's little more than an existing tank with better fields of fire for its MGs. Just don't quote me on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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