Battlefront.com Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Hmmm... Jeff, any more details? Your correction would appear to indicate that Cotton did in fact use his Cromwell against the Tigers. Is that correct? I'm probably one of the few "grogs" that doesn't have 10 different books on this battle, but that is the truth I guess I can make up for it with the numbers of books on Soviet Partisans and obscure TO&Es for the "minor" Axis allies Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 is it me or do the grogs only give credit to the allied soldiers and equipment? maybe i am a little new here but i am just wondering, from the posts i have read, the "grogs" seem to know all of the accomplishments of the allies, wich there were many and is good reading, but none seem to speak of axis victories, and things of that nature. perhaps i have simply not read enough posts, and of coursei am not speaking for all here, just the "grogs" that carry on and on about the allies so much that most people would forget that they were at war with a country that had soldiers and things too. this is a question not a statemtn so keep that in mind before the outcries coming flooding in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai: is it me or do the grogs only give credit to the allied soldiers and equipment? maybe i am a little new here but i am just wondering, from the posts i have read, the "grogs" seem to know all of the accomplishments of the allies, wich there were many and is good reading, but none seem to speak of axis victories, and things of that nature. perhaps i have simply not read enough posts, and of coursei am not speaking for all here, just the "grogs" that carry on and on about the allies so much that most people would forget that they were at war with a country that had soldiers and things too. this is a question not a statemtn so keep that in mind before the outcries coming flooding in<hr></blockquote> It is just you. By far most grogs study and learn about German and their gear. Now, a truye test of grogginess is to go past that and learn the TO and E of the Brazillian Army, the small arms of the Italian Army, or any number of other things, but most grogs got interested through studying Germany. Want "proof"? Go to a model show where the ultimate grogs hang. Look around at what models they build. Of WW2 subjects, 75% are German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Being a wargamer for 15 years, and moderating this BBS for almost 3... Chef... you couldn't be more wrong. The Germans have all the "sexy" equipment, uniforms, names, and years of combat in all all conditions. Documentation on all things German overwhelms that of the Allies. Check out military book clubs/stores and you will see what I mean. If you did a Search on this BBS, you would find that a large percentage of the 275,000 threads talks about nothing other than German this or that. Type in Tiger for instance and see how many hits you get. Then type in Cromwell. That ought to worth a laugh Steve P.S. Don't bother doing a test Search for numbers of hits. I forgot that the Search feature tops out at 200. Tiger and Cromwell both came up with 200. I suspect the real numbers are 150,000 vs. 201 [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Big Time Software ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 The Unit Diary of the 4th County of London Yeomanry, Lt. Cotton’s Military Cross Citation, and Daniel Taylor's research are quite clear on this point. All three sources indicate Lt. Cotton directed 4Tp while on foot. However I would encourage you to conduct some research on the battle yourself and draw your own conclusions. There is a huge amount of reference material out there on this battle. If you can only get one book on Villers…get Daniel Taylor’s “Villers-Bocage Through the Lens”. Excellent book. It can be read in probably 4 hours (but I read slow in order to digest each word ). There is a slight difference in the Tiger I kill totals for Villers-Bocage between Taylor’s research and the 4th Yeomanry Unit Diary. This appears to be a function of recoverable losses. Looking at the Combat history of 101st Schwere Abteilung (see W. Schneider) it indicates 3 Tiger I’s as irrecoverable losses during for 13/6/44. However it appears that 1.Kompanie.101 lost five machines during the fight..recoverable and irrecoverable (The Tiger Wittmann was TC'ing as well as the four KO'd by Lt. Cotton's 4Tp and supporting inf\ATG's) 2.Kompanie.101 didn’t loose any tanks during Villers. 3.Kompanie.101 had still not arrived in the area of Villers by 13/6/44. The 4 Tigers indicated in the 4th County of London Yeomanry would no doubt not reflect the two Tigers that were later recovered and repaired. And for Iron Chef Sakai: D. Talyor Puts the British losses at: 16 Cromwells 4 Shermans 3 Stuart's 13 Troop Carriers 2 Anti-Tank guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai: is it me or do the grogs only give credit to the allied soldiers and equipment? maybe i am a little new here but i am just wondering, from the posts i have read, the "grogs" seem to know all of the accomplishments of the allies, wich there were many and is good reading, but none seem to speak of axis victories, and things of that nature. <hr></blockquote> If it means anything to you, ICS, this "grog" is presently writing an article covering the events of two WWII Japanese destroyers. Earnest study of the "Long Lancers" will show that even in defeat and with horrific losses, the Japanese destroyer force still was impressive in its overall accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Why do any of you even bother responding to Iron Chef "I'm no speaky da language" Sakai? Good grief, reading his posts is about as painful as shaving my ass and then squating in alcohol. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jshandorf: Why do any of you even bother responding to Iron Chef "I'm no speaky da language" Sakai? Good grief, reading his posts is about as painful as shaving my ass and then squating in alcohol. Jeff<hr></blockquote> He's getting better. I think it's funny you mis-spelled squatting! It's even funnier that I probably used the wrong "its" though. Is it really necessary to close the pores after shaving your ass? I would think the pimples would hurt less than the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Is it really necessary to close the pores after shaving your ass? I would think the pimples would hurt less than the alcohol.<hr></blockquote> Hey, if some people want to be so arcane as to use razors for ass-shaving instead of hair-removing tonic or an electric beard trimmer, then that's their outlook, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 OK, I think the lovely images which we are left here should be preserved with a padlock This thread has basically run its course in any event, and is also getting to be large enough to cause the BBS software heartburn. Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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