Commissar Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I recall reading the recollections of a vet Luftwaffe pilot who was shot down in Poland. According to him, Asians/Mongols made up the bulk of front line combat troop in the Red Army. He was quite adament about it. Is his observations pretty much on the mark? I know that various minorities fought in the Red Army but I always thought the bulk of fighting troops were Slavs. Perhaps as the war progressed and the casualities became enormous and more and more of these miniorities made up the bulk of the forces. Anyone confirm??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: I recall reading the recollections of a vet Luftwaffe pilot who was shot down in Poland. According to him, Asians/Mongols made up the bulk of front line combat troop in the Red Army. He was quite adament about it. Is his observations pretty much on the mark? I know that various minorities fought in the Red Army but I always thought the bulk of fighting troops were Slavs. Perhaps as the war progressed and the casualities became enormous and more and more of these miniorities made up the bulk of the forces. Anyone confirm???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Off the top of my head, how could a single combat pilot be qualified to make statements about the troop compositions of a giant ground force? -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: According to him, Asians/Mongols made up the bulk of front line combat troop in the Red Army. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As I mentioned before: Nazi propaganda frequently called Soviet "the great barbarian mongolian horde". By 1944 the propaganda was talking about Germany role in protecting Europe from asian/mongolian invasion from the east. This is just another example. I bet everyone from did not looked Slaw was instantly qualified as mongolian. (For example Caucas region) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: Off the top of my head, how could a single combat pilot be qualified to make statements about the troop compositions of a giant ground force? -dale<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hence the question. He never details exactly why he states what he states. Perhaps he saw a lot of Asian troops or heard accounts from other Army troops. Beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Most (i think, something like 70%) were slavs, of course. Conscripts's nationality didn't make much of any difference (with few exceptions, especially for resident germans). So, quite naturally, the ratios were about same as in the general population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killmore: As I mentioned before: Nazi propaganda frequently called Soviet "the great barbarian mongolian horde". By 1944 the propaganda was talking about Germany role in protecting Europe from asian/mongolian invasion from the east. This is just another example. I bet everyone from did not looked Slaw was instantly qualified as mongolian. (For example Caucas region)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> During WW1, the Germans were referred to as Huns despite the fact that they certainly weren't the historical, nomadic, Asiatic barbarian horsemen of old. Asia may refer more to how Western Europe looked at Russia. My understanding is that Russia occupies a very interesting place in Europe. Western Europeans looked at Russia as being more a part of Asia while Asian countries viewed Russia as a European country. Geopolitical limbo, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 > Perhaps he saw a lot of Asian troops If he was captured in the operational area of a division formed somewhere like Kazakhstan - then, easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 One must remember that while European russians are by far the majority, many of them were in German Occupied areas until 1944. Hence, I would suspect that the percentage of Asiatic soldiers in the Red army was a bit higher until 1943 when the reconquista started. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 > During WW1, the Germans were referred to > as Huns They were often referred the same way in WWII. Ex, I've seen this nick in diplomatic correspondence between allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 > One must remember that while European > russians are by far the majority, many of > them were in German Occupied areas until Not as many as to make a meaningful difference, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Well the statement taken as a whole should not suprise anyone considering the USSR's teritorial aquisitions prior to WW2. We caqn also look at the Soviet mobilization Ie, Soviet records indicate that as of 1941 the USSR male poulation avilable for mobilization consisted of: * - Under 20yrs old - 43.0 million - 20 to 39yrs old - 31.5 million - 40 to 59yrs old - 14.7 million - 60 & above - 6.2 million This is roughly out of an population of around 198 - 203 million depending on what figures you wish to believe. Also this inclued roughly 22 million from the teritorial gains of 1939 - 40. which were basicly lost as soon as the war began by German gains. Also the Soviets did not consider Laplanders, Mongolians, etc as suitable material for conscription, though they did of course use these assets it was out of neccesity not choice. Then add the fact of the lost teritories that stripped the Soviets of millions of recruits until that territory was recovered in 1944, at which time the Soviets added 1 million conscripts. So back to the original post yes the poulation of the Soviet union was vast & culturaly different in many areas as well as language barriers, Ie, Soviet reports tell of Rifle Companies with up to members of 6 difrent nationalities surving in them with an Co who couldn't speak any of the languages of his men. But to say their was an preponderance of slavs etc is an generalisation in my opiniomn that is not suported in any material i have read concerning mobilisation/manpower etc. *See: Dunn Walter Hitler's Nemesis p.56 Regards, John Waters [ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Roughly about 2/3rds of USSR population was russians, ukranians and belorussians -> 2/3rds of the army were them, as well. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skipper: > One must remember that while European > russians are by far the majority, many of > them were in German Occupied areas until Not as many as to make a meaningful difference, really.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Uh, I think all of Belorussia, the Baltics, and the better part of the Ukraine and significant parts of western Russia proper was more than enough population to make a meaningful difference. Some major cities under German control by November 41 included Vilna, Smolensk, Orel, Belograd, Kiev, and Odessa. In addition, St. Petersburg was effectively cut off from the rest of the country, and wholly occupied with its own survival. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 In Hans Von Lucke's autobiography, he states that he was captured by Mongolians. He said they tried to steal his Knights Cross, but a Slavic officer stopped them. Of course this was in April '45, so there were probably more non-slavic conscripts than at any other point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Just to add a little side note to this conversation. I read in several places (book names escape me and ill post references later since im at work) that Stalin was more likely to use troops from places not firmly in Soviet control far more often than say Russian troops. This had the effect of killing off a large portion of the troops who could later come back home and fight Soviet domination. So a german seeing a large portion of asiatic troops wouldn't be out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 While the majority of Germans were Hamsters, with a sizeable Gerbil minority, the Russians were mostly Lemmings, with many Shrews and Moles from the Ukraine and the Baltics and Kangaroo Rats from the Gobi Desert and Mongolia. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: While the majority of Germans were Hamsters, with a sizeable Gerbil minority, the Russians were mostly Lemmings, with many Shrews and Moles from the Ukraine and the Baltics and Kangaroo Rats from the Gobi Desert and Mongolia. Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Whew! I'm glad we finally got that settled! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Gyrene of course completely ignores the Guinea Pigs, Marmots and Meercats from the Caucasus!! I wonder what his agenda is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Gyrene of course completely ignores the Guinea Pigs, Marmots and Meercats from the Caucasus!! I wonder what his agenda is? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Guinea Pigs and Marmots' contributions to the fighting in the Eastern Front are always grossly exaggerated. It is common knowledge that they didn't even join the fighting until the tide had turned and the Germans were retreating, and as far as the Meerkats go, they are not even proper rodents, and are just jumping on the bandwagon, like all their kind, and claiming to have been on the Resistance now that it is safe to do so and they don't want to feel left out. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: The Guinea Pigs and Marmots' contributions to the fighting in the Eastern Front are always grossly exaggerated. It is common knowledge that they didn't even join the fighting until the tide had turned and the Germans were retreating, and as far as the Meerkats go, they are not even proper rodents, and are just jumping on the bandwagon, like all their kind, and claiming to have been on the Resistance now that it is safe to do so and they don't want to feel left out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well that doesn't compare too badly to those Moles and Shrews who actually welcomed the Hamsters with open burrows! I think I see Gyrene's purpose here - he's trying to denigrate the rodents still used as food sources in some parts of the world - if it were known what a great contribution they made to the anti-Hamster coalition then there'd be no excuse to roast them! Rodents R US wil be at your door shortly young man, to see you right about a few things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 > Stalin was more likely to use troops from > places not firmly in Soviet control far > more often than say Russian troops. Wrong. Out of RKKA's 11.9 mln irredeemable losses, 7.9 were from Russian Federation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgars Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> with many Shrews and Moles from the Ukraine and the Baltics <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am from the Baltics. Am I Shrew or Mole? What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 cik's you're probably a marmot or a vole - Gyrene was pretty much just following stereotypes with his little outburst!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgars Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> cik's you're probably a marmot or a vole - Gyrene was pretty much just following stereotypes with his little outburst!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> At least now I know who I am! Phe... and people say that those internet forums ar useless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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