A note to scenario designers and CM2

[Cooper]

Before band of brothers start up i would like to make a suggestion to all those scenario designers out there. I hope when cm2 comes out scenario designers take into account german attrition during wwII. Any battle on the eastern front after 43 had german unit way understrength. Companies with less then 60 men before combat is not very uncommon. Battalions with about 2 companies the norm more so than 4 full strength ones. I think having your german units understrength, in you scenarios, would add a little bit of the desperate situation the germans were facing after 1943. Just a suggestion.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cooper:

Before band of brothers start up i would like to make a suggestion to all those scenario designers out there. I hope when cm2 comes out scenario designers take into account german attrition during wwII. Any battle on the eastern front after 43 had german unit way understrength. Companies with less then 60 men before combat is not very uncommon. Battalions with about 2 companies the norm more so than 4 full strength ones. I think having your german units understrength, in you scenarios, would add a little bit of the desperate situation the germans were facing after 1943. Just a suggestion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Infantry on all sides was very rarely on TO&E strength. I have a lot of references to UK infantry companies with 50-80 men instead of the TO&E strength of about 130 (IIRC) in Normandy and thereafter. The UK and Canada faced a manpower crisis as early as Normandy (where the UK disbanded a whole division and an armoured brigad because of lack of reinforcement).

'Roll me over' by Ganter (a US infantry squaddie) states that his squad never had authorised strength post Ardennes (when he joined it). This was a fairly common problem, not restricted to the Germans. Just saying they ought to get, let's say, 50% strength, while the attacking Allies are always at 100% is going to be as ahistorical as the current situation where both sides are always at 100%.

I am taking attrition into account in some of my scenarios now, too, by substracting squads or teams, but on both sides.

[Cooper]

I understand that both sides had man power problems. I just find battles with full/perfectly filled TOE kind of bland. When you play scenarios where the defenders and attackers have a full company or two it does not give any feeling that this battle is a part of a bigger war and makes it feel like a QB.

[The Commissar]

I think what Cooper is trying to do is suggest CMBB have attrition of lesser unit formation. IE: Instead of a full combat strenght 9 men to a German Rifle squad, some squads may have a little less, like 6 or 7 men. Support elements could alos be affected similarily.

Of course, this could cause problems in QB's. "Hey, I purchased a MG42 for the full 28 points only to find it 3 crew members short! What gives?!" Attrition can be a bitch.

I wonder if the necessary research could be done to have the degree of attrition varry throughout the years. Like in the opening stages of Barbarossa, the Germans would be near full combat strenghts while the Soviets would be reeling back with depleted everything, making it that much more difficult (and realistic). Of course, the same will happen to the German when they are pushed back to Berlin.

Or something to this effect, I don't really know if the Soviets maintained near-full combat power after they started beating the Germans back.

[Redwolf]

I am afraid I don't really get what your point is.

Are you saying that

a) the Germans should have less forces in a battle?

or

The Germans should have comparable forces , that would mean more units, but units not at full strength?

Option a) is always a matter of scenario design, especially for h2h play. CM as a game somehow depends on comparable forces. And besides, for any side of most wars, single hard shootouts would very rarely at such equal terms as in CMBO.

Option doesn't really make sense, since HQ staff would be in short supply as well.

[Cooper]

I am talking about scenarios starting with 6 man squads instead of 9 or 2 squad platoons instead of 3. This would show the effects of a long defensive struggle by the germans. I would be surprise to find 3 squads full of 9 men each in a platoon defending in stalingrad/berlin/budapest. I just think reduced strength squads/platoon/companies add a little to the overall feeling to a scenario people create. Also, there are usually enough hqs because you can always promote someone to plt.leader

[Madmatt]

Depleting units like that is not currently possible by the scenario designer however, we do have a very cool auto-depletion system like that which is undergoing testing.

The specifics of how it works arent public as yet but it will do what you ask for, just in more of a random way while maintaining the correct amount of unit points as requested. It is also slightly configurable to the amount of the depletion requested.

So you will have individual platoons which are not up to full strength including squads and teams missing men.

Trust me, it is VERY COOL!!!!

Madmatt

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Madmatt ]

[Cooper]

Thanks for the info Madmatt. I swear you guys think of everything. Leaves me with no oringnal ideas. LOL