Warmaker Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Regarding the Pershings, I know the Americans were dubbing it as the "Tiger Killer" and it was brought out waay late in the war like the JSII. I remember even that the Pershings never even got to face any Tigers due to such a late arrival. But how late along did that Super Pershing roll in? ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Actually I think Pershings did engage Tigers / Panthers. They went into service with the 3rd and 9th Armored, the 325th Tank Battalion, and a few other units early 45 and gave some excellent service before VE day (then went on to fight on Okinawa). The 90mm was not as good as the 75L70 or 88L71 weapons used by the Germans (although a few E4s were tested that had a better 90mm) but it had a better rate of fire than the 17pdr and the M26 itself was better across ground than the German tanks. The Russian JSII was available for the last year of the war, longer than the pershing, it was the JSIII which only served in a parade in the streets of Berlin, never firing a shot in anger. The JSIII was technically a better tank than the M26, and led to the development of the M103, but in action it was not all that great because of its tactical handling short comings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker: I remember even that the Pershings never even got to face any Tigers due to such a late arrival. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not true. The first Pershing lost in combat was taken out by a Tiger I in a night engagement. The Tiger then got immobilitzed when it backed into a house and had to be abandoned. The Pershing was repaired and later returned to service. I can't remember the date right now. IIRC there was only one Super Pershing that ever made it to the ETO. It was in April or May of '45 ------------------ You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV [This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 01-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted January 6, 2001 Author Share Posted January 6, 2001 Sorry for my error 'bout any Pershings engaging the Tiger. I've done a bunch of quick games with several Pershings vs. Tiger I's for kicks, usually 3 vs 3 and equal crews on gentle slopes and little tree cover. More shots had to be traded due to the thicker armor but out of 4 tests the Tigers always came up on top with all Pershings knocked out and maybe at most one Tiger knocked out and roughly same results with the Super Pershings but more shots required. Not to say the Pershing was a bad tank. The main difference to me is that dreaded '88. The Tiger may have been growing grey hairs by '45 but still had teeth. Didn't even try the Koenigstigers, hehehe... ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnL53 Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 The Pershings also met the Tiger one at Elsdorf and there one Pershing got a tiger 1 and two Pz 4s--( the Tiger was knocked out through the bottom of the front turret mantle, the bottom left side) the Pershing should have no real trouble with the Tiger as it was to meet it and better it but -- not the Tiger 2-- Hunnicutt who wrote a history of the Pershing rated the Pershing over the Tiger 1 but a little behind the Panther -- I have tried the Tiger 2 and the super Pershing and did not do well-- I immoblized one but lost four super Pershings in the process-- I have tried Pershings and Panthers and did fine on the Panthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Originally Posted by LynnL53 I have tried the Tiger 2 and the super Pershing and did not do well-- I immoblized one but lost four super Pershings in the process.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm...interesting. I did a QB between 4 KT's and 4 supers. The KT's shells almost NEVER penetrated the front hulls of the supers. The KT's barely won, I was lucky enough with my last KT to destroy the guns on the 3 ( ) supers. I guess the gunner got tired of seeing the shells bounce off the hulls, so he targeted the turrets. After that, killing the supers was a cake walk. I know that this was lucky, but was the fact that the KT's couldn't penetrate the supers just unlucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted January 7, 2001 Author Share Posted January 7, 2001 Gotta admit though, the skin on those Super Pershings were good requiring multiple shots from the 88's/75mm's. They're a whole lot more survivable than those soda cans you call Shermans. If I was a US tanker in WWII I'd be praying to be in any Pershing tank. It was SOP in some frontline US units to not "retrieve" the crew from the inside of a knocked out Sherman for psychological reasons. The mess was extremely bad when penetrated by an 88mm. Hell, some even went from the front and out the end of Shermans. Ouch... ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima [This message has been edited by Warmaker (edited 01-07-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 I don't pick standard perushings in cm because the armour is still not good enough to defeat the most common gun you face in meeting qb's - the 75/L70. It will zip threw the 114mm perushing turret at well over 1000m just as easy as the 89mm standard sherman turret. Sure it can score more panther and tiger kills with its 90mm gun, but its just too costly to justify in most cases. The super perushings 152mm turret has some merits, as it will stop the 75/L48 dead in its tracks, but agian the 75/L70 will defeat it out to almost 1000m. Couple that with its slow rate of fire and it agian is too steep in price to be justified. Basically you take a huge risk when buying either of these costly monsters in a QB. They can quickly be turned into expensive wreaks if your enemy has any Panthers, Jagdpanthers or Tiger II's on his side. And lets face it, 9/10 times he will. Then agian, if you can live with the Super Perushing's slow rof and postion it well back on the map, maximising its armour and decent gun, it could prove quite effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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