Guy w/gun Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Stalin's Russia was FAR from Communism my friend. Communism has little to do with anything Soviet, in my opinion. [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-16-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Sorry about the misunderstanding, I meant "totalitarian" or a quais-state of the above. Communism was the "official" state of the government, and one which was never really followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skott Karlsson Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 "He was absolutely the most evil person that existed in the last century" Hmmm.. like a couple of others I'd have to say Hitler was in the top two. If you count bodies Stalin killed far more. Hitler killed something like 6 million and some change and Stalin killed 20 million. Course, Stalin had more time to do it. Evil can come from many places under many disguises. Stalin and Hitler were just two examples but not the only ones. Oh, yes I did find the pic funny as well. ~Skott~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfors Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Regarding the holocaust: The figure "6 million killed" is WRONG. The TRUE figure is 11 or 13 (I don't remember, and don't have a book to look it up in right now). The figure 6 million really refers to JEWS. 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust, plus an additional 5 or 7 million (again, don't remember) homosexuals, percieved enemies of the nazi party, handicapped people, people of "lesser races", etc. Let's not forget about them. -Enfors- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 HI mom! damn I got ticket 13,044,939,920 to kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 After witnessing, and participating in, the abusive cross-fires that come out of gamey tactics threads you would think that avoiding religion and politics in this forum would be a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetherat Posted January 17, 2001 Author Share Posted January 17, 2001 OK, stop it! Evil? I'll tell you what's evil. The fumes that eminate from my between my back pockets. I don't know what it is, maybe my diet, maybe my lifestyle, but pure evil it most definately is. I need a saviour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 One savior coming right up. Beano! ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stevetherat: OK, stop it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> you didn't say simon says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 I always wonder who dares to throw **** on Germany or Russia : our beloved Americans, murders of million Indians, Vietnamese, Philippines, Africans... only the top of the iceberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Enough already, Everybody knows that the focus of modern Evil in todays world is Bill Clinton. ------------------ The box is locked, its Robot Fighting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scipio: I always wonder who dares to throw **** on Germany or Russia : our beloved Americans, murders of million Indians, Vietnamese, Philippines, Africans... only the top of the iceberg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> True, but besides the Indians (which we screwed royally) there was never a American policy of systematic murder and execution. I suppose you can go there if you wanna be some peace loving anti-war hippy but I am a realist in the fact that when you fight war those who participate in and around it die. Period. **** happens. But to go off and condemn those who fight, or choose to fight, as evil murdering bastards is just a little to simplistic to me. Life is more complicated then that. Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Scipio wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>only the top of the iceberg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You left out the Eskimo's. Actually, the way I see this is the majority of those who migrated, initially anyway and for the most part thereafter to America were British, and even today we operate under the heritage of English Common Law, speak the English language, consume large quantities of tea, watch Spice Girl videos, and maintain for the most part a major societal inheritance with England. Therefore, in reality, it is England who is to blame. Had they not come over here and run everyone else off and then, with the most powerful army in the world at that time, managed to lose the war of independence to a rag tag crew of under fed malcontents then possibly instead of a White House, there'd be the "Big Teepee", and instead of an inauguration, we'd be having a peacepipe smoke. Only, we just wouldn't inhale anymore. History: The CM Way ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralsaw Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: **** happens.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I suppose Hiroshima qualifies as such? Sigh, rightfulness is a privilege of the conqueror... IMO, there are no evil people. There are mentally ill people (Hitler?), and there are fools. Hitler was the (dark) product of a certain historical period and the same goes for Stalin. It is naive to think that one (evil) person can unite a whole nation, unless the nation is perceived as evil as well, or the person is given superhuman powers, both of which are contemptible. Nazism was a despicable totalitarian regime, that unfortunately flourished partly due to the humiliation that Germany was (rightly or wrongly) submitted to having lost WWI. Stalinism was just as horrible as nazism, having grown in the decadent climate of Imperial Russia, it abused the human hope for equality and well-being and used fear and destructionto rule. Here's to hope that no totalitarian regimes will ever resurface. Regards [This message has been edited by coralsaw (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 I'm sure it was not all one-way traffic, the Red Indians must have done something to the Americans in the first place. Who is to say that if the Red Indians had good ships, and lots of willing men, that would not have invaded Japan or something, and then killed everyone. Imagine all the atroicities that would have been committed had the Indians access to machine guns and other such technology. What I'm trying to say is that peoples find themselves in situations because of their geography and technology, and that dictates their actions. Hitler could have happened in France had the circumstances existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 There are no such things as evil people? They are either so deranged they can't help what they do or are such idiots they don't know any better? Are you kidding me? There *are* evil people. Hitler was one, sure he had others help him and a willfully blind populace to back him. But that doesn't change the fact that he was evil. Like most people, I'm sure Hitler didn't decide to become a murderer over night, but he made a choice to follow a path of darkness and hatred that could only lead to a bad end. And for making that choice, he was evil. Communism is evil as well. You can't force people to be equal, as soon as there is freedom for people to excel and to pursue their own goals in life, there will be differences in equality; whether financial, quality of life, level of education, whatever. This fantasy of an "ideal" communist system that works is a joke. The only way they can make most people even live under communism is by putting thugs at the border with machineguns to murder them if they try to leave. Without the basic freedom to live your life as you see fit, you have nothing but a slave state. And that's all communism will ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 My opinion is no offense versus soldiers of any nation who has fought in war (my father was one of them). America has started or intervened in many wars, always saying they're fighting for the freedom of the world. Of course, that what America told to be freedom. Fact is: America has won the war vs Germany, so Germany was the guilty. America has won the war vs Russia, so Russia was the offender. History is always and only written by the winners. Something else: Germany has murdered 6 millions of yews. And 20 Million Russians. What have the yews learned from their own history? They go to Palestine, what's okay. They take the land from the people who lived there. Some of them see themselves as God's chosen peoples. I guess they have learned a lot from us Germans. But not the right things. Well, sorry for the sermon. I should better do some games then to talk about things I don't understand in a language that is not my own. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Oh come on people, there is no such thing as good or evil. Those are judgement calls made up to suit the times. One of the amazing things to remember is that before WWII, it was accepted practice to do just what the Nazis did. We Americans (And the British) neutered mentally handicapped people and eugenics was not a dirty word. Wholesale slaughter of people happened ALL THE TIME (Christians in Azerbaijan during WWI being an oft pointed to example). Racism was well established and scientificly backed up. Et cetera, et cetera. WWII made these things evil in popular opinion. It did this because the allies put together a campaign to sway public opinion just as surely as they put together a campaign to defeat the Axis. The result of this was a change in public opinion leading to the emancipation of India, the Civil Rights crusades of the US and the entire political correct movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Communism evil? I don't think it's evil so much as just improbable. Facism evil? Well, maybe. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So it's little wonder why their have been few (if any) kind leaders of Facist-Totalitarianistic regimes. My motto is Communism is only evil to those who wouldn't benefit from it. And PLEASE. Communism is an economic system. There are Democratic Socialism in other parts of the world that from what I have read, work quite well. There's another saying too though. Whats the difference between a Communist and a Socialist? The Communists are actually serious about it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scipio: My opinion is no offense versus soldiers of any nation who has fought in war (my father was one of them). America has started or intervened in many wars, always saying they're fighting for the freedom of the world. Of course, that what America told to be freedom. Fact is: America has won the war vs Germany, so Germany was the guilty. America has won the war vs Russia, so Russia was the offender. History is always and only written by the winners. Something else: Germany has murdered 6 millions of yews. And 20 Million Russians. What have the yews learned from their own history? They go to Palestine, what's okay. They take the land from the people who lived there. Some of them see themselves as God's chosen peoples. I guess they have learned a lot from us Germans. But not the right things. Well, sorry for the sermon. I should better do some games then to talk about things I don't understand in a language that is not my own. Cheers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And it's not that simple, Scipio. The American Ideal won the war, so America is wrong (Or haven't you noticed how much we've criticized ourselves for our conduct with Hiroshima, the Phillipines, the indigenous peoples of the Americas, minorities, et cetera.) We've bashed ourselves more than the combined intellectual elite of Europe could in 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 No such thing as good or evil eh? You wouldn't happen to be one of those high school students I heard about awhile back that LAUGHED at the nude women wailing in fear as they were stuffed into gas chambers in Schindler's List? Or the colledge students who said that the belief that the holocaust was wrong is just a moral question? It is evil/wrong/unjust/whatever to MURDER. Murdering is not killing enemy soldiers in war. Murdering is not defending your home/family/nation with deadly force. And to me Murder is not putting an end to the life of those who do murder. Murdering is what the Nazis did. Murder often takes place during war, and those people are war criminals and should be hung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Bruno -exellent post But you did forget one thing. Anglo-Saxon comes from the Angles and saxon tribes which invaded britain from northern germany. So it's the germans fault after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy w/gun: No such thing as good or evil eh? You wouldn't happen to be one of those high school students I heard about awhile back that LAUGHED at the nude women wailing in fear as they were stuffed into gas chambers in Schindler's List? Or the colledge students who said that the belief that the holocaust was wrong is just a moral question? It is evil/wrong/unjust/whatever to MURDER. Murdering is not killing enemy soldiers in war. Murdering is not defending your home/family/nation with deadly force. And to me Murder is not putting an end to the life of those who do murder. Murdering is what the Nazis did. Murder often takes place during war, and those people are war criminals and should be hung.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Guy, once you take a position such as this, you spend the rest of your life justifying and making exceptions. According to your beliefs, murder is evil. According to my beliefs, telling someone what to think is evil. According to a vegan's beliefs, eating cheese is evil. Moral absolutism has been discounted since people started thinking, from Sumeria to Greece to Rome to China to Venice to America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetherat Posted January 17, 2001 Author Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scipio: Fact is: America has won the war vs Germany, so Germany was the guilty. WRONG, arsewipe. The ALLIES won the war against the Axis armies. America has won the war vs Russia, so Russia was the offender. WRONG AGAIN, ****-for-brains. NATO 'won' the war against the Soviet States. Cheers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Cheers? **** off! [This message has been edited by stevetherat (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Steve, edit that post please. This is an emotional issue and you had good points but we shouldn't let this devolve into a screaming match. Besides, it's bad form, you give your debate opponents the chance to say you're a brainless rat and ignore your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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