Von Lauchert battle CMBB question

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I found that playing the Von Lauchert battle in CMBB, it is a duck shoot! All I did was line up my panther ds on the creek bed and they massacred the ruskies. My question is, do the russians get a bonus? I did'nt read anything in the briefing saying that it was recommended to give them a bonus?? And I don't know how to reach the creator of the battle.

[Chad Harrison]

This scenario was designed as a example of German superior optics, and the power of the panther

Actually, I think that if you played it as PvP, it might end up different. Massed russian armor goes one of two ways: slaughter house, or victory. I would be curious to know if anyone has played this one PvP?

Chad

[rune]

When it was tested it was a 60-40 split for which side won. You are correct, it is either a slaughter, or the massed armour can work.

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You have to use the Russian real life tactic of speed. Look over the terrain, the dips and dry creeks beds to get you to the main river bed, but you have to beat the Panthers there. Hold the flags, and the Panthers have no choice but to close the distance into your lethal range. Slug it out, and your tanks will be wiped from the map.

From the German Side against the AI, depends on if the Soviets rush the flag or not. If the AI does the right thing, and I have seen it happen, then no bonus is necessary. If the computer takes its time, then yes, I would add 25%. How do you know what the comptuer is going to do? You don't. It is why I didn't put a rtecommendation in, as it depends on the randomness of the AI.

However, the scenario does do what is intended. The Germans see when the Panther was used correctly, unlike the first commander, it is awesome. The Russians learn speed is life on the steppes. Fail to close in, and you die. You have to hit the Panthers in their weak spots [the sides].

Play it fromt he Russian side and see how you do. Have been debating about putting in play as two player or as the Russians, but the AI has won as the Russians. Haven't made up my mind yet.

Rune

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Well Rune, I played as the russians, and got a tactical. I massed some of my tanks over to the side of the map, then brought 2 platoons over to the other edge and went for a flanking move. The panther Ds were still butchering my russians, head on attack against the panthers is plain madness for sure, but like you stated from the side they can be taken.

[Aco4bn187inf]

Howdy, Folks!

(This is my first post) I just played Von Lauchert as the Soviets and lost forty-some vehicles without killing any German ones. My attempted tactic was to mass my tanks behind the hill, then race them en masse into the gulleys. I got a handful into the gulleys but they were all destroyed while trying to ambush the Germans at close range.

I'd like to ask any of those players who's had success as the Russians in this battle to give me a few tips- Did you send your tank platoons forward as soon as you recieved them, or did you try to send many platoons at once? Were you able to find a covered route forward on the south side of the hill? (I couldn't)

On the question of getting flank and rear shots against the Panthers and Tigers- the AI had them spread out and facing in several directions, so no place was safe for me to try to sneak up on them.

I used to think of myself as an intelligent person until I played this scenario, so I am definitely going to play it again. What an ordeal!

PS Has anyone here read War Without Garlands by Robert kershaw? A terrific book about the first year of Barbarossa with tons of first hand quotes, diary entries, and some cool rare photo sequences of combat.

[Trommelfeuer]

O.K. folks, this is what "von LAuchert" can look like, when you're lucky and have good soldiers in the field...

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All twenty russian tanks of the first wave rushed towards the ravine, all but one T-70 came through, I ordered them to await the german Panthers....(the T-70 that didn't come through got stuck on open ground and was ripped apart in seconds...)

My SU-122's and 152's I sent into a run towards the ravine through low terrain, I knew that they would't stand a chance at longe ranges...only one SU-152 got knocked out on the run, the others reached their defense position, SU-152's covering the middle, and the four SU-122's positioned at the right wing. (the SU-152 that got lost on the way had made a big fault: it changed direction during the run to the ravine, in this short "stop-to-change-direction" period, it got hit several times and was given up...)

pic 1:The SU-122 battery reaches the ravine intact and moves into defense position, the 3 surviving SU-152's get to their positions in the middle..

The rest of my units I used to slow down the oncoming germans...I had two 7.62 mm in a good position 1.500m behind the ravine, keeping the german right wing-Panthers under constant fire and in return recieving fire, but being positioned so close to the hill, the germans didn't score a hit, but the Panthers wasted time and ammunition, and the middle Panther spearhead reached the ravine absolutely unsupported by german right or left wing troops......

pic 2:7.62mm AT-gun opening fire on the german right wing, many craters, a truck wreckage and the immobilized SU-152 on half way to the ravine can be seen...on the right wing lend lease shermans, captured Pz IV and Sturmgeschütz III units lay smoke screens, distract and slow down the germans...

pic 3:Lt Alvaseret scores his third Panther D kill within 5 min...they all got knocked out by the first shot on distances from 86-200m...

pic 4:After the german middle Panther spearhead has been completly destroyed, SU-152 commanders Alvaseret, Popov and Iushkevich rush to the left wing to attack the german right wing at close ranges...on the russian right wing, the SU-122 battery with help from the few russian infantry in the ravine has crushed the german infantry and taken many prisoners...

pic 4:cpt Pondelin commands his few guard soldiers that are left to attack the german left wing one more...

pic 5:lt Popov destroys his third Panther D, the german right wing is crushed, remaining german troops surrender or draw back......

In the end it was 75:25 for the russians.

german casualities:

6 Panther D in flames;

3 Panther D destroyed;

3 Panther D deserted;

37 soldiers KIA

russian casualities:

1 T-70 M 43 destroyed;

1 T-70 M 43 in flames;

2 T-34 M 43 destroyed;

6 T-34 M 43 deserted;

1 (Beute)PZ IV destroyed;

1 SU-152 deserted;

19 soldiers KIA;

It was a really good day for the russians...

MFG, Trommelfeuer

[ March 18, 2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ]

[Aco4bn187inf]

Good AAR, that last one.(After Action Review)

I played the scenario a second time as the Russians vs. the AI and did quite a bit better. I learned to pay attention to which vehicles can fire smoke, and made sure to use it in a deliberate way. I got many vehicles into the ravine and mangled the panthers as the AI sent them forward slowly in small numbers at a time. It shows how much depends on the opponent making mistakes. (Which is a realistic lesson.) At one point my tanks hit a single panther with 16 shots within 30 seconds. If the game had lasted a few more minutes I would have destroyed all the German armor, but that's "the one that got away". A major factor of luck is the number of vehicles that bog down in the steppes. The first time I played, for example, 3 of my 6 shermans were immobilized before making contact. Pure bad luck.

An interesting thing I noticed here, which is visible in the picture in the previous post, is that when an AT gun is nestled in a dip in the terrain it becomes almost impossible for the enemy tanks to hit it. Very nice.

[LynnL53]

I have played this game three times now -- first as the Germans -- it was a no contest for them- and that is no surprize-- then as the Russains and the Ai killed me -- so after studying and reading the above AAr -- I tried again- it ended with the Russians 54 the Germans 47 not overwhelming but I learned and enjoyed and that is what the game is for- thanks for the info-- I will probably try again in the future --if it were not so long I know I would but it is long my game went 49 turns

[kunstler]

Just gave this scenario a whirl. Figured there'd be a thread like this about it, it's a tough one. I got totally slaughtered as Russians.

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As the Germans, you get a pack of Panthers. I stood of f and engaged the Soviets at long range. The biggest worry was that I'd run out of ammo, as the Soviets have a lot of tanks. Fortunately for the Germans, they can't hit anything, and if they do, they can't penetrate the forward armour.

I took out 69 Soviet tanks, 3 or 4 KV-1s, 4 Shermans, 4 Churchills, 10 T70s, some captured German tanks, most of the rest T34s.

I lost nothing. Not a single tank. Hell I didn't have a single casualty in my entire force, including the infantry advancing over open ground! The Russians didn't hit my tanks with more than two or three times in 45 turns, most shots missed. It was a breeze.

By the end of the fighting however, I only had 3 Panthers left with AP rounds (20, 30, 16 or so). By then he only had 2 or 3 tanks left so no biggie.

Played later as the Soviets. I had foreknowledge about the German positions and numbers so I thought I'd do better. I think I followed the logical strategy for the Russkies: I rushed my tanks ASAP to the gorges that feed into the main ravine/soggy bottom river bed, using them for cover, then set up to hit the Panthers as they crested the ridge of the ravine at point blank range.

I got most of my original slew of tanks in safe (minus the tank commanders, the AI nailed them, and a few T70s which toasted quick). Then I got all but two of the reinforcing assault guns into the gorge.

The next wave of T34s I tried to shuttle up as well, but the Panthers had moved forward by then and butchered most, one made the gorge, one I managed to pull back from the crest.

The remainder of the reinforcements I stopped at the hill. It was just getting too risky, the Panthers too accurate and my tanks too inaccurate to risk long range exchanges. I tried some shoot and scoot but nobody made it to the scoot part.

So I waited for the Panthers to crawl up to the ravine. Here I had positioned my tanks in groups of 3/4 to either side of the advancing panthers. Couldn't get the dang LOS quite right and the different tank pods didn't engage at quite the same time, the command delays for some were pretty long. I screwed up on coordinating that and getting LOS exactly right for them all.

The Germans got the jump, started shooting first. They had advanced in two big packs on either side of the map. Engaged at around 69 meters direct, 200 meters flanks. Some of the Panthers on the far flank started firing into the rear of my tanks on the other side trying to ambush the other set of his tanks. Whoops. Had to move forward quick with the force set for them to stop that fire.

Heck fiddling with the LOS was proving difficult so I just moved everybody to contact at the ravine, and then rushed forward with the horde from back at the hill.

It was a slaughter. Half the horde rushed to the ravine, none made it. The other half tried to hull down and distract/fire into flanks of the Panthers. No luck there, they were dead pretty fast.

At the ravine, I took out 4 Panthers, but the T34s kept reversing into cover rather than shooting (they were less experienced crews) which hurt the number of shots I got off. It was hard to get them forward from two angles at the same time. Even at short ranges 60m-200m the Panther frontal armour was tough. Each turn I got a slew of Knocked Out messages popping up over my tanks.

I still had infantry in the trees but only 3 tanks left. He'd knocked out the AT guns I 'd tried to position on the hill side and rear trees. So that was time to hand in the towel and surrender: 69 vehicles to 4. Man that's an awful result, especially since I knew what was coming.

I didn't manage my attempted ambush at the ravine as well as I could have. Still. I thought the scenario illustrated the superiority of long range German guns and piercing ammo over Soviet armour quite aptly.

Gotta go now and search for a thread that explains how to win von Lau as Soviets.

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And here I am. Trommelfeuer, that's an amazing performance. Couldn't see the picks but the results . . . . holy moses. Very impressive! I'll have to try again another day.

cheers,

kunstler