Armor: Favorite AFV in Combat Mission

[Geier]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jgdpzr:

...and sometimes the bar eats you - The Stranger

The Dude abides

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-So these guys are like, German nazis?

-No Don, they're nihilists. They're not dangerous.

Seemed fitting, for some reason.

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Geier, formerly Kettle Black.

"The succesful execution of a well devised plan often looks like luck to saps."

Dashiell Hammett

[Silencer]

quote:

I have to go with the Brummbar too, even though it didn't make it in CM.

Oh noo, they left out the cozy brummbar, my personal favorite... :´-(

any chance we see him in a patch?

or user mod?

S.

[Cueball]

They indicated there might be a "Vehicle Pack" somewhere down the road. They had only so much time to do the models.

IIRC, not many of the beasts actually saw action on the Western Front. However, there are several vehicles already included (Wirbelwind, Puma, "Super Pershing", Churchill AVRE) which didn't either, but were likely included because modeling them was quicker due to chassis etc. already modeled.

I'd still like to use one though

[Doug Beman]

Oh, man, I have to say this is the most interesting and amusing thread in a long while. You guys are really, truly, deeply wacked.

DjB

[pathfinder]

plumbing?? who needs any stinkin' plumbin'

*pathy grabs some tp and a copy of his fav magazine n heads fer the outhawse*

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unca pathy will show ya the path,

if only he could find it himself!

[patboivin]

In ASL I liked the latest Russian tanks, those were hard to beat.

I also like hidden 88LL guns, those make for happy surprises, especially when the enemy is a convoy of slow, oversized, lumbering British AFVs. (here I have to admit that I got the short end of the stick for that ASL scenario and I had to play the Brits, my opponent had three 88LL guns hidden on top of a level four hill. I can't remember ANY of the British tanks making it through, the road was cluttered with wrecks and the useless things had a movement of 8.).

I am not picky though, in a scenario my favorite tank is the one on my side that picks off all enemy targets quickly, effectively and doesn't bog down.

My favorite tank (when played by an opponent) has to be the t38, the one that was bolted together so that when you fired at it the bolts would come lose and fly all over the place inside the tank. Those are fun.

I don't like flamethrower tanks, they tend to have a very short lifespan, for some peculiar reason they become top priority for the opponent once their true identity is revealed. (I could never figure that one out...)

[patboivin]

I am Canadian, what about the RAM II?

Was that just a lookalike of the early Shermans?

I find it strange that the RAM II always shows up in games as the Kangaroo, what happened to all the TURRETS??? Maybe they were sunk by u-boats along the way.

Maybe Canadians had such high morale and were so tough that we didn't need turrets on our tanks, they were just decorations.

[Bullethead]

While the "Cook-abura" was definitely a highly successful system in the PTO, it was not, despite Australian claims to the contrary, the only combat appliance to see action in that theater. In fact, both sides used such devices to a fairly large, though often under-reported, extent.

The main US system in the PTO was a field expedient lash-up hastily assembled in divisional shops. Originally invented by Louisiana National Guardsmen, it consisted of an empty 55 gallon fuel drum with the top cut out and a short-tube spigot inserted through the side near the bottom. This assembly was placed atop a burner stolen from the galley of a troopship and modified to burn whatever fuel was available. The system was known unofficially as the "crayfish boiler".

In operation, the system fired a stream of boiling pepper spray and was quite effective in destroying die-hard Japanese soldiers in their caves. In fact, the vapors emitted while the system was reaching operating temperature were often enough to flush out civilians who would otherwise have perished with the soldiers.

Unfortunately, the "crayfish boiler" had several disadvantages. It was difficult to transport, especially when loaded, and, once emplaced, it took nearly 1/2 hour to reach operating temperature. Also, staff officers had the habit of appropriating the device for the O-Club kitchen, thus limiting its combat availability. But its effectiveness was unquestioned so eventually an improved version was standardized as the POA-CWS-H9 (Pacific Ocean Area-Chemical Warfare Service-Hawaii #9), a vehicular weapon with self-contained heating elements, mounted as the main armament in a Sherman tank. Several of these saw action on Okinawa and it would have been used extensively in the invasion of Japan, but the end of the war canceled the project and only 18 were ever built. However, there are unconfirmed reports that at least 5 were used in Korea.

Meanwhile, the Japanese Army employed the KE-GO Type 96 "Knee" Wok throughout the war. The prototype of this system was apparently acquired in the 1930s during the war in China. Like many Japanese weapons, it was small, primitive, and relied on the bravery of its operator. It had no built-in launch system. Instead, the soldier simply charged the enemy and dumped the contents of the wok on him. The Type 96 could also double as a helmet in emergencies.

While gaining some notoriety in Banzai charges, however, the Type 96 was otherwise relatively ineffective. It had no anti-armor capability, for example. But the main problem was that Allied troops quickly learned to detect its distinctive aroma, thus making the Type 96 useless for snipers and infiltrators. In fact, the weapon caused the most casualties among Allied troops who mistakenly placed captured woks on their thighs and thus suffered severe burns.

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-Bullethead

jtweller@delphi.com

WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm

[THumpre]

What about the LeClerc f43 "Le Bombe" man-portable anti-personel crepe pan? Devasting within a ten meter radius but IIRC no antio-armor capability at all.

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No matter where you go, there you are.

[jgdpzr]

Damn funny movie, eh Geier? Although nothing can compare to the Coen's magnum opus starring everyone's favorite Warthog from Hell.

"That there's what it is!"--H.I. McDunnough

[Supertanker]

I think it has something to do with the stack of Haunted Tank comics in my parents' garage, but I'm looking forward to the Stuart the most. Feed me, Gus!

Going back to my Squad Leader days, I always have found the invulnerable, hard-hitting weapon systems to be the most boring. So you can pop a Sherman with that King Tiger? Whoopee. My friends and I used to play a system where you would pick a country and then get one stack of men, one vehicle, and one gun of your choosing. Except for me, the German player ALWAYS took a stack of SS troops with a pile of MGs, an 88LL gun, and a JagdTiger. If they won, they merely fulfilled expectations. If I beat them with an M10, a 57L gun, and a stack of 6-6-7 infantry, it was a triumph.

I much prefer the challenge of using middle-of-the-road equipment, and I tend to play the allies for this reason. If I were to get hit in the head and decide to play the Germans, I would prefer a platoon of MkIVs (with maybe one Panther if I was heavily outnumbered), than a group of KTs or JagdTigers or some other behemoths.

This is the same reason I often take only a handgun when I play Counter-Strike. Sometimes I will take a basic rifle, like a Scout or an AK-47. Sure, if I'm not super-careful, the guys with AWPs or something nail me with regularity, but they will never live down the knife or Sig 228 kills I get on them.

[krm]

I got to go with the Kubelwagen...Just kidding. For me, I can't go past the big ass boom of a 128mm crap pounding machine - Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger.

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I'm always in the ****, it's only the depth that varies.

[Seanachai]

Oh for the love of God, grunto, why did you have to mention the kitchen sink? You've set them off again. I think I'm suffering from Post Traumatic Sink Syndrome, now. I can't do the damn dishes anymore, I'm afraid to wash my hands, and if they continue to move into Armored Fighting Toilets, I'll probably be arrested for doing my business in the ally

again...

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After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[hnh3_cm]

I nominate this for the Funniest Thread of the Year Award.

[Sgt.Morgue]

i'll have to wait till CM2 for my favorite , the KV2, the best tank for its time , 152mm howlitzer that crushed the german tanks of the period, plus armor that the german shells

just bounced off of.

Short coming was low amount of ammo.

just my 2 cents worth

[This message has been edited by Sgt.Morgue (edited 06-15-2000).]

[von Lucke]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by THumpre:

What about the LeClerc f43 "Le Bombe" man-portable anti-personel crepe pan? Devasting within a ten meter radius but IIRC no antio-armor capability at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are correct Monsieur. However, the particular fueling requirements of this device --- a tart red wine, preferably a nice Merlot --- made it's field application rather dodgy. As a result, it's deployment was limited to Battalion level HQ's and above.

[Guest grunto]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sgt.Morgue:

i'll have to wait till CM2 for my favorite , the KV2, the best tank for its time , 152mm howlitzer that crushed the german tanks of the period, plus armor that the german shells

just bounced off of.

Short coming was low amount of ammo.

just my 2 cents worth

[This message has been edited by Sgt.Morgue (edited 06-15-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah i would always buy conscript kv2s in cc3 during the summer of '41.

the bt series couldn't take any kind of serious fire but it sure could move, and the two varieties hit fairly hard with their short 76mm (bt-7) or 'long' 45mm (bt-5).

yeah the russian armor was a terror in 1941... heck those guys were murder throughout... 1945 russian armor is arguably the best. they may not have had optics but they sure had armor protection and huge main guns... heck 122mm is sort of a post-ww2 standard.

imagine... 1 KV2 trying to hold a position with a 'battalion' ('company' equivalent in german army) of conscript infantry. the germans are attacking with a pioneer company, some river town road/rail junction in the middle of nowhere, ukraine. the halftracks and stugs can be heard over the treeline in the distance... 2k and closing...

clouds of dust are kicking up... two companies (platoons) of bt5s appear far to the russian flank... ah speedy reinforcements! let the battle be joined!!

open up your lone russian 12.7mm mg position against the first-appearing german halftrack!

what about your 82mm mortars... 5 of them!?... and your 76mm 'crash booms?'

ah if the germans don't display their familiar tactical superiority this thrust will be blunted!

andy

[Franko]

Hey, its too easy to like the King Tiger or the Panther, or other so-called Glamourous tanks.

I like the Panzer IVH with side-skirts, and the Sherman. They were the workhorses.

A word to scenario designers--dont crowd your scenarios with super tanks...they were rare on the battlefield.

F.

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by patboivin:

I find it strange that the RAM II always shows up in games as the Kangaroo, what happened to all the TURRETS??? Maybe they were sunk by u-boats along the way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The original Kangaroos were 'defrocked Priests'. The Rams had been converted to open-topped 75mm SP arty carriers, called 'Priest' or 'Holy Rollers'. They had a sort of tower on the right side with a .50 AA MG, looking like a pulpit, hence the names. These were not being utilised a lot during the early time in the Normandy bridgehead, probably due to space limitations and absence of large-scale breakthroughs on the Commonwealth flank. That led to the idea of removing the guns, welding some protection over the gun-slit, and using them as APCs. The idea apparently originated from Lt.Gen. Simonds, commander 2nd Canadian Corps. The Kangaroos continued to be used throughout the war, the 1st Canadian APC Regiment was the only Canadian unit to be raised and disbanded on foreign soil, IIRC.

Freyland, I think it was you, if I ever design a scenario, I can guarantee you that it will only contain a historically correct number of super-heavy tanks. I prefer the realism of having workhorses, and few of them to boot.

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Andreas

The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it)

[Formerly Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

The original Kangaroos were 'defrocked Priests'. The Rams had been converted to open-topped 75mm SP arty carriers, called 'Priest' or 'Holy Rollers'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Rams were taken out of the Canadian TO&E in 1943, just prior to HUSKY. Some were converted to Arty Observation tanks with extra radios in place of the main gun and saw service with Brits and Canadians in Normandy as OP and Command Tanks.

Just prior to TOTALIZE, the Canadian AGRA units which were using M7 Priests on loan from the Americans re-equipped with Sextons. The 105mm guns on the Priests had already been removed and returned to the Americans, but the chassis remained. It was these chassis which Simonds drafted into use as the first Kangaroos. They proved so successful that the mothballed Rams in England were converted to APCs and shipped over after the M7 hulls were returned to the US forces.

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra:

The Rams were taken out of the Canadian TO&E in 1943, just prior to HUSKY. Some were converted to Arty Observation tanks with extra radios in place of the main gun and saw service with Brits and Canadians in Normandy as OP and Command Tanks.

Just prior to TOTALIZE, the Canadian AGRA units which were using M7 Priests on loan from the Americans re-equipped with Sextons. The 105mm guns on the Priests had already been removed and returned to the Americans, but the chassis remained. It was these chassis which Simonds drafted into use as the first Kangaroos. They proved so successful that the mothballed Rams in England were converted to APCs and shipped over after the M7 hulls were returned to the US forces.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the correction Babra. I always get confused with these weird Canadian vehicles.

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Andreas

The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it)

[Geier]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jgdpzr:

Damn funny movie, eh Geier? Although nothing can compare to the Coen's magnum opus starring everyone's favorite Warthog from Hell.

"That there's what it is!"--H.I. McDunnough<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A trick statement? "Everyone's favourite warthog from Hell" and "magnum opus" got me to Barton Fink (John Goodmans best part), which is my personal fav, along with Big Lebowski, but you have Raising Arizona as your fav. If I remember correctly H.I. McDunnough is the name of Nicholas Cages character? Damn fine film too, must see it again soon.

To bring this back on topic, "Barton Fink" actually (not kidding) has the best faucet scene ever portrayed on film. I recommend all faucet grognards to rent it.

"People can be so cruel" - Charlie Meadows

Geier

[Jochen2]

I´m German, but i like the Sherman?

Yeah, a poet!

No, but really, i like those Sherman tanks. The m24 Chaffee i like too.

To my favourite German tanks:

StuGIII late version, Panzer IVH aaaand the Tiger.

Jochen

[CrapGame]

Perhaps Gen. Sosabowski could remind us all about the effectiveness of the weapon issued only to the most elite of the Polish units, the M5FG+IP polish sausage - AKA the "KILL-BASA". Approximately 33cm in length, and typically under 1 kilo in weight, the KILLBASA was a multifaceted device in the hands of the experienced soldier. It could be swung as a club to inflict contusions and lacerations, and in its most effective role, could be combined with sauerkraut and beer to cause severe Flatulence, Gastronomical Havoc and extreme Intestinal Pain. Due to the incredibly heavy level of suffering inflicted upon victims of the KILLBASA, it was reportedly put under consideration to be banned as a chemical weapon under the Geneva Convention, and was consequently withdrawn by the Poles from frontline service.

Although officially denied, rumor has it, though, that they may still be found in various Polish units around the world.

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CrapGame out

[jgdpzr]

Ed referred to the character played by Randall "Tex" Cobb as the warthog from Hell.

And right you are about the faucet scene from Barton Fink. Wish some of our faucet experts could chime in on the particular hardware being portrayed in the scene. My bet's on Italian origin (perhaps the John Turturro connection?) but I'm a novice at plumbing weaponry identification.