Colin Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Finished games shouldn't need to be patched. Otherwise they're not finished. If its a bug fix thats okay but I don't think patchs should add in things that should have been there in the first place. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 I vote for more eye candy ! As someone stated earlier in this thread, Steve & Charles, et. al are probably working on just more than the graphics and eye candy. In order to "appease the masses", we are just starting to see these improved smoke images (which were initially worked on a few weeks ago IIRC) as a sign of CM's improvements and progress. CM is Steve & Charles' baby. It's launch and eventual review will have a big impact for their business. Others have posted here in the past saying that some of the graphics were "a joke" and could be a lot better (of course they were comparing it to other 3D games that won't have to render half of what CM will need to). There was a bit of truth to their statements since the primary emphasis for BTS has been to make a highly accurate and functional game engine (the bane of so many grognads has been the "nice graphics, but unrealistic/unplayable game"). Now they have a chance to spiff up the graphics to a level that they feel is acceptable to the reviewers and non-grognards out there who may be seeing CM for the first time and may have no clue as to the complexity of the underlying engine. Most gamers are used to games pushing polygons and not much else ("brain-dead AI"); now BTS has to meet that expectation of the "polygon beauty pageant". As much as we would want BTS to release the game now & have them "pretty it up" later - we are not their only audience that they have to please. Wow... I must have covered some really unique perspectives on this. I guess my comments have brought this thread to its comatose conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 "Finished games shouldn't need to be patched." - true I guess, in a 'perfect' world. So if a game company comes up with a great new idea to put into their game you wouldnt want them to bring out a patch to do it? Fleet Commander is a good example of this. They had some features they didnt feel was an issue when they origionally released the game (multiple weapon loadout for planes, etc), but after it was requested after release they decided to add it and release it. Most game companies wouldnt I guess, theyd stick a $50 price tag on it and call it Fleet Command 2 (and weve all seen it happen..... ) There comes a time in a game or in any programs development when you have to draw the line and say release it. Sometimes you dont get all the features in youd always like too becuase of time and budget constraints. Hehe, if Charles put in all Im sure hed like to into CM you probably wouldnt see it for another year [This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 02-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Hmm I'd have to say, only release it when BTS thinks that they have realistically done as much as they can to make this game ideal. Current gameplay is excellent. Nobody will quabble about that, but the beta demo's graphics were a bit rough. There will be two types of people buying this game: 1: The type that loves wargames, and craves the superb gameplay, and 2: the type that like strategy types of games and likes the "look" of CM. Part of our responsibility as hard corps fans of this game is to want BTS to do so well that CM2 is an inevitability, and talk of CM3 gets well under way. To accomplish that they must make it as ideally pleasing to the eye as possible. I personally think this is the mindset of BTS. Mid March maybe? Hell did we even find out the end decision on the TCP/IP thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Ship it. Looks great to me , I am a wargamer I want gameplay, translucency effects dont turn me on. That said its BTS's baby, its thier call. I just wanna play it right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icee93 Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 I say the graphics are perfect, the gameplay is perfect the game is perfect!!! I think any further improvements should be incorporated into CM2. Gives us something to look forward to. Just think were at least looking at an April release date already.....does anyone wish to wait any longer. No i dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icee93 Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Ship as is!!! We are already looking at a April release date. Who wants to wait any longer!! Soon CC V will be release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Tough choice. After seeing pics from CCJ and latest series PotD @ CombatHQ, I go for making better graphics. OTOH, I secretly hope BTS can make it befor May 2000. Hehe. Griffin @ work [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng (edited 02-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 *** Oops, snip duplicated post *** [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng (edited 02-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 I think we need to keep in mind what has already been mentioned earlier. Perhaps this recent eye candy is the result of waiting on the manual to be finished. I don't know about everybody else, but I would love to have a good manual with my game. All we really know is that the release of CM has a DIRECT effect on Steve and Charles' income. If they feel it needs more, then it needs more. I don't have a problem with that. ------------------ Dan [This message has been edited by DanE (edited 02-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Western Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 IMHO the graphics are very marginal, esp the infantry. While the combat simulation portion of game engine appears to be impressive both the interface and the graphic need a lot of polish. But I don't see either of these items getting much additional work so I'd vote for releasing the games with the graphic as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 It's not like BTS is only tweaking graphics, there are still things to test and minor bugs to squash, and features to square away. At this point there's also the whole issue of the varaibility of video cards particularly on how they handle translucence fog and other effects. And don't forget the committment to make the game as accurate and realistic as possible within the framework of the design meas tehre still are some things to get done. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 I believe they will go Gold when its ready. I wnat them to deliver their vision of what they think is important in their game. I am a designer and I can't tell you how frustrating and it is to have others meddle with your creation in to mediocrity. I just worry that the more layered up the visuals become that the game will run too slowly on most users machines, if there are ways to adjust the level of rendering of detail for those of us wiht more plebian machines (as has been aluded to) I think it will be fine. In general I am satisfied with the general visuals in the demo game, they give me the feedback I need to make decsions. I don't have a G4 400 at home (several at work, and a few NTs) and I doubt my wife would be real happy with me sacrificing her new kitchen to the gaming gods... I think the game looks great in the latest interations and look forward to its eventual release, WHEN IT IS DONE, just as they state in the BTS manifesto. BTS is doing a great job please keep going as you are. Thanks Karl Mead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCrawler Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 It's very simple really. Since BTS are not under pressure by some big publisher, they will release when they want to. I can wait on the game, I just want my pre-order Panther print NOW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossfire Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 To some of you guys: Survey is asking your opinion, whether you think graphics are sufficent. So no need for another "I support BTS" statement. IHMO graphics are good enough for CM1. To attract larger crowd BTS would need to put a LOT more work into soldiers, bodies, buildings, holes in buildings/tanks, real time and so on. Smoke/fire will not be probably enough to sell much more CM1 games. IHMO graphics are good enough for release. Basically I think that improving graphics should not hold up the release The more graphic effects the more bugs due to poor drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamse Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 I demand that CM is released yesterday ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Well, adding to the initial "survey question", I think that the CM graphics may have approached the point of "diminishing return" where much more added effort now won't give as much extra in the game's marketability. HOWEVER...the only reference we have for knowing CM's present graphics state is the ongoing CMHQ's "Picture of the Day" and pictures in the new GameDomain preview. Is that enough for us to state that we think that the graphics are "ready"? Maybe yes, maybe no. And FAR more important....let BTS get the manual right!!!! If that is NOT ready, then DON'T release yet. Reviewers and customers can ultimately be far less forgiving of incomplete, poorly organized documentation than of the graphics state. [This message has been edited by Spook (edited 02-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted February 23, 2000 Share Posted February 23, 2000 Release the D*** game already!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, pardon my foul language. But enough is enough. It's high time for this show to hit the road. Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 02-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 Graphics? We don' need no stinkin' graphics! As a long-time Red Baron 2 player, I can tell you, if someone doesn't like CM's graphics as shipped, they will post their own versions within weeks! (As I believe is being done with the demo even now). It's the little things --- like the interface, the editor, subtle AI tweaks --- that make a game worthy of a continued spot on my hard-drive... And to everyone whining that they want CM now: You'll prolly be the first one's to start whining that the game sucks if it ends up being released too early... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 While I am slowly going (more) insane from waiting, I do believe that best possible graphics is better than releasing now (as if our demands for a release now means anything to BTS :cool . The reason for this is that this game is probably (hopefully?) going to set new standards in tactical wargames, and really goodlooking graphics is going to help promote it to those players who put graphics above (or at least as important as) gameplay. \\\//// (@ @) --(_)-- Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason "why", our's is but to do and die! [This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 02-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 You guys have it all wrong - sure there will be mods out - but reviewers don't give a rat's arse about mods. They judge the game,as it is, when it leaves BTS. You say you are happy with the graphics in the beta demo right? Wouldn't you prefer to be awed by the graphics, rather than being just simply, happy.... Hey if an amatuer like me can improve the look and graphics that much, imagine what a professional artist could do! I say add more icing to the cake! When my Tweaked Textures v2.0 get released, and you still prefer the original beta demo graphics, then I say ship the game now, but if my enhanced graphics, make you feel just a bit more like your there, then that's the goal of good graphics in a wargame like CM! Isn't it about time a hardcore wargame had kickarse graphics and sound?! Its time for a revolution!! I'm sick of crappy graphics in a wargame. I can't name a single wargame in which the graphics and sound matched the gameplay - not even the Close Combat series. CM has the potential for sure ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there! [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 02-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 A game is never "finished".Improvements can always be made .A line must be drawn in the sand. Bearing in mind the recent "age survey" some of us cant afford to wait too long. I urge release as soon as possible . An age challenged gamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 Fire !!! The only things that could be done a little better are the fire graphics. Now we have this great smoke and still the odd "firesquares". But when it's done, fire it up asap !!!! Soma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 As is I think the only thing I'd like to see in is better fire for buildings and terrain. I know that it is difficult to do but thats just what I want. Also the other point I'd like to bring up is that it doesn't matter what the result of this little poll is S&C will release it when it's done. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KILLEM ALL Posted February 24, 2000 Share Posted February 24, 2000 i am tired of waiting for this game release now release now release now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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