Jeff Heidman Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I am kind of surprised to see that there are none in the game. By 1944, there were still lots of them running around. Anyone have any ideas why they were not modelled? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: Anyone have any ideas why they were not modelled? Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Any idea how many of them were in the west? Guess it came down to a combo of them not being 'cool' enough and low numbers. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Don't suppose you have some OOB or strength reports issued by the divisions detailing the location of all these PIII running around in 1944 on the western front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted July 25, 2000 Author Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bastables: Don't suppose you have some OOB or strength reports issued by the divisions detailing the location of all these PIII running around in 1944 on the western front?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why? If you think there were none, just say so. You might be right. But anyway, for example, in the Normandy battle 116th Panzer reported 11 PzIIIs on their roster. There ar reports of PzIIIs being used against Frosts battalion at Arnhem. Is it not the case that the PzIII was still around in 1944 on the Western Front? Over 13,000 were built by the time production ceased in 1943. Were they almost all destroyed and/or converted to StuGs? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I read that near Arnhem, at the time of Market-Garden, there was some sort of Panzer training unit that had six Pz III (mark unknown) on hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 By 1944 most Pz III's were converted into command vehicles with no main gun. It was a wooden dummy gun bolted onto the hull. These were used as forward observation posts for Arty and used for forward commands of the Panzer divisions. But such a large number had been destroyed in 1943, that the remaining amount really was better suited for the command roll and not wasting a good tank like a Panther or Tiger on a command tank. These command tanks usually had a map desk in the turret and a larger radio. I think that there were more antennas on these (my New Vanguard book is down stairs with the pics, I'm to lazy to get it ) I'm sure that there were a few Ausf J-N in the West, just not enough to make it into the game. [This message has been edited by ntg84 (edited 07-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Ju Ju Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I think they were rare enough by that point that the omission is understandable. Kind of like the failure to model different truck types. Not a biggie. ------------------ "I didn't go to evil medical school for six years to be called MR. Evil." Dr. Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Ju Ju: I think they were rare enough by that point that the omission is understandable. Kind of like the failure to model different truck types. Not a biggie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To play devil's advocate here, PzKpfw III strength in the West as of 06.10.44 was 39, PzKpfw III's with 26 deployed with 11th, Pz.Div (7.5 cm L/24) & 13 (5 cm L/60) with the 116th Pz.Div. In November 1944 no PzKpfw III's are listed in the logs, of any Pz. Div refitted in the West. Now rare as that may be,CM does model the Jadgtiger, which one could also make a case ase a 'rare' AFV. Anyway, I have no doubt we'll see all the PzKpfw III's we want in CM2 8). Regards, John Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Well 39 PIII as command tanks or munitions panzers. My gosh there were just herds of them. Must have been like gremlins just add water. sorry it’s just the pictures in my head. Sorry but I do find it odd that the Germans stopped producing K.St.N which included PIII. My inference is that there was no need to put paper OOB of PIII's because a; they were just enough of the little buggers to make a Kompanie in the entire western front and b; they served as Befehlspanzer's (command tanks) or training veh as in the case of the ones that faced Frosts battalion. I'm sorry but 39 is not a lot, at least in my mind, but maybe you think that 39 is a lot. The inclusion of the Lynx and Puma should indicate that low numbers is not the only gatekeeper of Veh in CM. I mean there is a hell of a lot of horse drawn Kitchens but I don't think they are in CM either. Arguing that PIII’s should be included on the basis of there numbers is not only missing the point but erroneous in that there were so few of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted July 25, 2000 Author Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bastables: Arguing that PIII’s should be included on the basis of there numbers is not only missing the point but erroneous in that there were so few of them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> bastable, who was arguing that they should be included? I think that I just asked a question, which some people were kind enough to answer. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: bastable, who was arguing that they should be included? I think that I just asked a question, which some people were kind enough to answer. Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry all your thread seem to run into each other, my mind side tracked into your ranger thread. And misread your intentions; I thought you were arguing for there inclusion. Again sorry about that. [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 07-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 It was onthe original list of vehicles they wanted in the game, but they had to pair the list down so they could get the game out the door. According to this thread, it was due to rarity reasons. www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/002598.html Now, as has been pointed out, rarity isn't the only factor, so I suspect it's becuase the PzIII was both rare and not 'cool'. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben Galanti: Now, as has been pointed out, rarity isn't the only factor, so I suspect it's becuase the PzIII was both rare and not 'cool'. Ben<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'd rather have a Weasel than a Pershing, and a Panzer III instead of a Jagdtiger. But I am uncool, just ask the 18-year olds I had to shepherd until early this month. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Heh, not arguing that they should have been included 8), just stateing fact, & I find it eronius that their low numbers are being used as a basis for their non inclusion,as the same can be said for the more exotic German vehichles in CM Ie, the Jadgtiger etc. The PzKpfw III's in the West were not just PzBefwg's, munition carriers, or training vehichles, they were armed PzKpfw III's that saw action. Now does that meen they should be in CM IMHO no, but thats just me, but it is a given someone was going to ask where they are, due to the evidence that PzKpfw III's were in the West with 2 Pz Divs. Nor do I think 39 is alot 8P. Regards, John Waters <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bastables: Well 39 PIII as command tanks or munitions panzers. My gosh there were just herds of them. Must have been like gremlins just add water. sorry it’s just the pictures in my head. Sorry but I do find it odd that the Germans stopped producing K.St.N which included PIII. My inference is that there was no need to put paper OOB of PIII's because a; they were just enough of the little buggers to make a Kompanie in the entire western front and b; they served as Befehlspanzer's (command tanks) or training veh as in the case of the ones that faced Frosts battalion. I'm sorry but 39 is not a lot, at least in my mind, but maybe you think that 39 is a lot. The inclusion of the Lynx and Puma should indicate that low numbers is not the only gatekeeper of Veh in CM. I mean there is a hell of a lot of horse drawn Kitchens but I don't think they are in CM either. Arguing that PIII’s should be included on the basis of there numbers is not only missing the point but erroneous in that there were so few of them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 07-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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