Any body that has CMBB gone back to CMBO

[lcm1947]

I am seriously thinking about buying CMBB but am hesitant as why waste money when I really am perfectly happy with CMBO. Not that I can't afford the $50.00 but I really wonder if CMBB is all that different and better since I really really prefer and am more interested in the Western Front over the Eastern anyway. Would it be a waste of money since I would probably just go back to playing CMBO unless it was a lot better/fun/different, etc. Anybody that has CMBB and CMBO want to make a comment, suggestion or advice.

[nevermind]

I wouldnt do it then.Might be nice to have just in case,but i got the bundle about 6 months ago and have played CMBB only a few times.They added some nice stuff in CMBB,but i feel some/most of the fetures added remove some of the "human error" elements of the game(am i hull down or not?).I feel the same as you about the western front,and until CM3 where the yanks and brits return,i think ill stick to CMBO.My 2 cents.

[JeremyCupit]

Here is my take having bought CMBB a few weeks ago.

If you are looking for more "fun" then I would sick with CMBO, not because CMBB is in any way less fun to play than CMBO - it just isn't any more fun. They are both fantastic games.

I would say that CMBB is actually less forgiving of my mistakes then CMBO. CMBB "feels" much more like a simulation, and has a more realistic feel overall than CMBO (hard to put my finger on this feeling).

I was like you and not really all that interested in the eastern front, but after doing some reading and playing CMBB, I am really into the flavour of the period. With both wide open steppe for armour battles, or countryside just as dense as any thing in normandy for assaulting troops, the eastern front has it all.

Also the varity of the units in CMBB feels bigger, with a real rock-paper-scissors factor (eg. PzIII => T34 => Panther).

So I guess it depends what you're looking for in the game, more fun (not really, equally as good), or a more accurate simulation.

Jeremy

[CombinedArms]

I played CMBO for about a year and a half and loved it, then bought CMBB when it first came out, and at first I wasn't sure I would really take to it. In fact I found the transition rather difficult.

But now I'm totally sold on CMBB and just wish CMBO had all of the same features. I would suggest buying CMBB and "easing" into it. Take some time to get familiar. Don't expect to get it all at once. But I'm betting that in a month or two, you'll be completely hooked.

[lcm1947]

Well, thanks guys for the imput. I appreciate it. It's really a hard decision because I enjoy CMBO so much but kind of feel like I might be missing out in not getting CMBB. So I don't know what I'll do yet but do appreciate you taking the time to answer my post. I guess it wouldn't kill me to buy it and see but then again - hell I don't know.

[Jack Carr]

As someone who owns both I can honestly say that the engine in CMBB acts more realistically than the one in CMBO. I still play CMBO from time to time and I can sympathize with your situation liking the Western front over the Eastern front and all but CMBB is the better game. My two cents. Good luck with your decision.

[Rokossovski]

I have the opposite concern. I have CMBB, but not CMBO. Is it worth getting a copy of CMBO, or will the prior version just frustrate me for lacking some of the added features? I am interested in both fronts.

[Glenn]

Not to complicate matters even more, but one thing I look at as well is if I'm going to play strictly against the AI, against humans, or both. If it is both (as I expect it will be when I receive my copies), then the problem I *might* have on the western front is I will always want to play the Canadians (guess where I'm from ). Now if I play CMBO, the opponents might be harder to find (I'm really speculating here), whereas if I play CMBB I'm not as fussy about which side I play. That leaves a lot more options open. Now, having said all that, if I have an American friend who wishes to play the Americans mostly, the I will play the Germans in U.S./German scenarios, and he will play the Germans when the REAL allies play (uh ohhhh -- INCOMING!!!!! <-- just kidding around guys, really ). So, now that I've just totally messed up both your decisions... . Of course, after that last crack, I may not have ANY opponents at all! .

Glenn (the soon to be deceased)

[nevermind]

Ive already posted on this matter,and i have a bias towards CMBO,but if you have an interest in both fronts then i would say to get both.You'll have to understand that BO is a more "primative"(so if your used to BB it will seem like a step down) version of BB,they have the same engine,but BB's was reworked.There are features in BB that arent in BO,and BB graphics are much better.There are alot of mods out there for BO that will alter its sound and appearance big time.It took alot of work(for me,because i didnt go the CMMOS route),but i now have a great looking BO.Its not as sharp or crisp looking as BB but it looks just as good IMHO.I also found that searching for the right mods became a game of its own :mad: BO is less expensive than BB,so even if after a few weeks/months you go back to BB exclusively,it wont be a waste of money.In fact,it will be helping BTS make improvements to BB,and the future of CM.I doubt that they are hurting for money,but they wouldnt mind more,right Steve So again,i say it wont hurt to get both,heck i might even get tired of BO one day and play BB more,but i doubt it.

PS

Glenn,when you get your cd's,i would be more than happy to beat....err,umm play you sometime

[ February 11, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Ares_the_Great ]

[Glenn]

Ares_...

You're on my friend! I feel it only fair to warn you though - I have a tendency to let my opponents get a "bit" of a lead in the beginning, but in the end... well, let's say that's when I REALLY collapse!!!

I'll keep you posted!

Glenn

[Panzer Ace]

I have both, Play both and like both

any way, in my perfect world CMBO would have the CMBB engine, and CMBB would have the CMBO balance, (except for the Gun Damaged tanks you get all the time :mad: :mad: ) I find that playing the CMBB scenarios the majority of them are SLAUGHTERS. Early Barbarossa the Krauts to the slaughtering, Late barbarossa the Commies to the slaughtering, ( im gonna hear it now!!!) so, I guess i like playing CMBO better :confused:

[Screeny]

Look at it in this way: CMBO is a nice panzer III early in the war , and you as kraut are completly happy with it driving around, occupying all those countries inhabitat by not so uber people as yourself are. A big smile on your face knowing you have the best Panzer in the world under your ^%$##.

Then one day they give you a Panzer V, THE PANTHER. WHOAAAAHHHHH.....what a magnificent machine...once again you are driving feeling complete happy with yourself with this inmense cool machine under your ^&%%^.

You do the serious work with your Panther but so now and then old memories come back and you go to the work shop, start up the old Panzer III which was so much fun and you drive around a bit bit tyour old buddies, just for fun.

gr

Screeny

[Ynori Erup]

Well, hey, I just ordered CMBB today, and even THAT was fun... I'm sure I will be fresh meat for a while but I just think that SKI TROOPS would be cool even if they aren't that great in practice. SKI TROOPS. Now somebody will tell me something bad about SKI TROOPS...

[Green Hornet]

Originally posted by Glenn:

...Now if I play CMBO, the opponents might be harder to find (I'm really speculating here)...

Glen, and any others that might be wondering/thinking the same thing... I don't imagine you will have a hard time finding CMBO opponents. I still play CMBO and currently have 14 PBEM games going at once. I've never had a hard time finding opponents and even with the release of CMBB there still seems to be plenty of CMBO opponents out there...

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by lcm1947:

I am seriously thinking about buying CMBB but am hesitant as why waste money when I really am perfectly happy with CMBO. Not that I can't afford the $50.00 but I really wonder if CMBB is all that different and better since I really really prefer and am more interested in the Western Front over the Eastern anyway. Would it be a waste of money since I would probably just go back to playing CMBO unless it was a lot better/fun/different, etc. Anybody that has CMBB and CMBO want to make a comment, suggestion or advice.

That is pretty much what I thought before I got CM:BB and having played the demo a few times -- having done several battlefield walks in Normandy and studied the campaign in more detail than I have any other WW2 campaign, I was doubtful that I would spend all that much time with the new game, especially as, at first sight, the changes seemed to be a collection of superficial ones rather than a big re-jig.

Well, I was wrong. I play CM:BB all the time now, and find it considerably more satisfying game than CM:BO. The changes are in fact not so "superficial", and the combination of them works really well, especially in respect of infantry tactics. Not least of the many improvements IMHO is the way that "gamey" force selections and tactics have been pretty well eliminated; there are no "super-weapons" like the Flakwagens, Hetzers, rushing Honeys or VT artillery of CM:BO.

Anyway, what's $50.00? I remember an old ad for AH's "Squad Leader" that compared the purchase price to a steak dinner for two, and I've spent more than $50.00 on a cigar before now. If you only get a few dozen hours of fun out of CM:BB it will be money well spent; I've had hundreds of hours of fun out of mine already, and expect to get hundreds more.

Executive summary: "Try it, you'll like it!"

All the best,

John.

[lcm1947]

Well I don't know if you guys helped me or made me more confused. Not that that would be hard to do. Everyone makes a good point however and I do appreciate the feed back. Darn CM for coming out with CMBB instead of improving CMBO. Well I'll just continue to think about it I guess but in the mean time if somebody would care for a game let me know. I have only played 3 PBEM's in the 2 1/2 years I've had the game and those were over 2 years or so ago so I'm not an old pro at this game in case one would be worried. I'm easy so any side or setup would be fine with me. I prefer American's but I could do the evil German's.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

I play CMBB all the time now. At first I thought I would go back to CMBO once and a while to visit the WF, but there are so many improvments in CMBB, that I just never have any interest in playing CMBO anymore. I tried, but I just keep moving back to CMBB. I have considered for the past week of finally removing CMBO for my HD for the fisrt time since it's release. *gasp* :eek:

[Sardaukar]

My CM games are nowadays 90 % CMBB. I especially like the way infantry is modelled, and really love the way heavy machineguns pin down attacking infantry. CMBB in that aspect plays more realistically..as on armour side, I rarely use some new neat commands like shoot&scoot or seek hull down. from simulation point of view, CMBB is better and with bigger distances you really find out why for example Tiger was so feared 1942-43. It's interesting (as in Tiger case) how what you know from 20 yrs of military reading and wargaming comes alive on your screen and you really undestand instead of just knowing why it was so much feared on East Front.

Cheers,

M.S.

[Cpt. Cook]

It took me a long time to buy CMBB as I am a student and it comes to about $85 Canadian...

But it is worth every penny. AND I still play CMBO. That is where I do my PBEMs, I am not altogether confident on PBEMs yet for CMBB. However, I win more often against the AI in CMBB. I LOVE the large map armor battles and the new sounds.

And I hate the gun damaged thing, but who cares, I hate watching both my STUGs blow up in a PBEM too.

Buy 'em both.

[ParaBellum]

Hehe...first post in the CMBO forum in a looong time.

I'm playing CMBB since the day it was released and only played one short CMBO QB in all that time. Just for memory's sake...

Before seing CMBB the first time I thought "Well, it's gonna be CMBO on the eastern front with some better graphics and new units." I'll still continue CMBO if I get BB.

Boy, was I wrong!

When I and a few others attended a CMBB preview we were all amazed how different the game played!

MGs that finally are able to suppress the enemy, better modeling of infantry, the 'death clock', pre-planned arty barrages, 'cover arc' orders...I could go on and on.

I somewhat miss the Normandy battles from CMBO but after playing BB extensively I'll be never able to go back to BO.

Conclusion: If you'e interested at least a tiny little bit in the eastern front it's a 'must have' game!

[Pud]

I still play CMBO and still love it for what it has that have been removed when CMBB came out. Some of those thing that are missing/changed in CMBB I still find annoying.

I would suggest posting a message on the CMBB forum asking can you pay a visit to a any players living in your area, asking can you pop round for a coffee and a hotseat game of CMBB. This will definitely give you the answer you are seeking.

[foamy]

My advice - stick with CMBO, they really took the fun out of CMBB and replaced it with stodgy, slow hard work.

I have played dozens of PBEM with CMBB and I still don't like it. Troops tire so easily that it takes half the turns just getting to the battlefield. Mortors and other light artillery make hardly a "Pop" and result in a small pin-prick in the dirt. If you don't scour the battlefield with a magnifying glass you won't even know that your wasting all those valuable shells on an open area.

Enough bitching - they are both great games CMBO is just more fun (Wish they would either upgrade it with a newer engine or put the fun back into CMBB). Good luck with your choice - enjoy !!

[YankeeDog]

While I now play mostly CMBB, I haven't completely abandoned CMBO. As my forum alias implies, I have a soft spot for those Yanks. . .

However, I actually find it considerably easier to issue orders in CMBB than in CMBO, especially to infantry, and this makes the game substantially more enjoyable for me. My CMBB games move much faster, in terms of orders plotting time & c. than my CMBO games do.

In CMBO, you have to go to great lengths to convince your infantry to follow a reasonable "Move to Contact" drill. You either have to "Sneak" the whole way, which is slow as hell, or use a ridiculous number of waypoints, alternating "Move" or "Run" orders with "Sneak" orders.

The combination of "Move to Contact" and Covered Arc commands makes it very easy in CMBB to issue transit orders for infantry.

The replacement of the "Ambush" command with Covered Arcs is also a huge step forward, and greatly reduces orders plot time. In CMBO, I'm always hiding/unhiding units and moving around ambush points based on enemy units to try to get my infantry to fire when I want them to.

While it takes a bit more time to set up the covered arcs in CMBB, once you do, you can pretty much leave the units to themselves and allow them to engage as the enemy moves into the arc. This makes handling units like HMGs and ATGs a LOT less time-consuming.

Frankly, though, for me CMBB's new MG and supression modeling is worth the price of admission by itself. I am rather into the realism thing and it's just way too easy to order infantry units to run across open terrain under fire in CMBO, IMHO. I enjoy the additional challenge of either (1) finding a covered approach route for my infantry to avoid the fire (even more important in CMBB than in CMBO), or (2) figuring out where the ?&%! the enemy's HMGs are so I can supress them and get my infantry moving forward again.

I would disagree with Foamy that infantry tire more easily in CMBB. As already mentioned, they supress more easily. This can result in them tiring faster, but it is possible (and indeed, necessary if you're going to become good at CMBB) to adjust your tactics to avoid this.

Infantry MOVEing or RUNing in CMBB doesn't tire any faster than in CMBO. The difference is that you really can't use either of these orders under fire, you have to use the new ADVANCE, ASSAULT or SNEAK orders. These orders are very fatiguing to your troops. The result is that infantry movement really slows down once contact is made. You're either going to find this change to the way the game plays more realistic, interesting and therefore fun, or you're going to find it slows down the game to an unacceptable degree and therefore ruins the fun. It all depends on the kind of player you are and what you're into the game for.

The hard-to-see light arty issue in CMBB that Foamy alludes to is another personal preference thing. If you haven't read about it before, the 'shockwaves' that accompany HE explosions in CMBO are completely missing in CMBB. This makes smaller explosions more difficult to spot, especially on the higher view levels.

I play mostly smaller scenarios, and generally by PBEM, so I have plenty of time to look at things on the 2 and 3 view levels. This close up, IMHO the new explosions look more realistic. However, if you play a lot of larger scenarios, or by TCP/IP, where time can be an issue, I can see how it would be easy to 'lose' the location of a light arty barrage simply because you can't see it at the higher view levels. This problem is compounded by some of the features of the new artillery modeling, specifically the fact that barrages plotted without LOS (more realistically)have a random error in aim in CMBB, rather than simply falling in a wider pattern. If you don't watch for the spotting rounds very closely, it's easy to waste a whole bunch of 82mm or 76mm shells on an area where you didn't want them to fall at all. Again, you can certainly make the argument that this is more realistic, but some players find having to scour the battlefield for spotting rounds rather tedious.

Ideally, CMBB should have some kind of toggle that allows you to switch the 'shockwaves' on or off, but it doesn't and BFC has said that this is not going to change. To me, this is a small issue.

The biggest piece of advice I would give regarding CMBB is this: don't judge it by the demo. IMHO, the demo scenarios seem to be more designed to show off CMBB's new features than they are designed to be fun. This is certainly not the approach that I would have taken in selecting scenarios for the demo, but I don't work for BFC, so that's not my problem. See if you can get your hands on a friend's copy of CMBB or something to try it out. The scenarios on the CD are much more fun.

Cheers,

YD

[CombinedArms]

I think if you count the votes you'll find a significant majority in favor of buying CMBB. IMHO it's the greatest war game ever, and by a significant margin. There's a bit of a learning curve, but both the money and the learning effort are well worth the reward. I now LOVE the new infantry model that Yankee Dog describes, though getting the hang of it was a bit of an adjustment. It seems to me MUCH more realistic and it isn't difficult once you learn to use the new commands to your advantage. In fact, it's very difficult to stop a really well planned and supported infantry assault.

In a nutshell: CMBO is the second greatest wargame ever, but at this point I play 99% CMBB. The new game is THAT much better.

[ February 14, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[hardcampa]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

I would disagree with Foamy that infantry tire more easily in CMBB. As already mentioned, they supress more easily. This can result in them tiring faster, but it is possible (and indeed, necessary if you're going to become good at CMBB) to adjust your tactics to avoid this.

Guys don't forget that they fixed these issues in the latest patch (1.02):

* Corrected problems with units becoming excessively exhausted such that recovery took too long.

* Support weapons are less likely to switch to "sneak" movement when coming under only modest incoming fire.

I think these two things might "speed" things up a bit as well.