alex127 Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 Before Patch 1.03, one of CM's neat features, especially for newbies like me, who only play Single Player anyway, was to be able to make a few tweaks to a QB game in the Editor. Of course, this only worked if you hadn't moved a single unit on the Setup Screen, & you saved the game untouched. If you moved 1 single unit & then tried to save it, the Editor wouldn't load it. Now, after 1.03, the Editor won't load the QB Saved Game even if it units "haven't" been moved. Why was that ability to edit an untouched QB Saved Game removed? It shouldn't have had any effect on PBEM games, because once 1 single unit is moved, it couldn't be opened in the Editor anyway. So, why did this feature have to be taken away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 it may have simply been an over sight I don't think very many people here knew that you could save a quick battle (unmoved) and open in the scenario editor. Maybe that feature (undocumented as it seemed to be) was perceived as a bug and it was "fixed" Just my opinion I could be all wrong. -tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 Thats something I used to do too. If a battle was extremely interesting, Id go back and play it again as the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 I for one am glad that feature is no longer available... DYO games are the best, and the only real way to PBEM where you KNOW that your opponent has no information on your force. Doing what you describe could be, and would be by me, thought of as a cheat. Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 Ah! Perhaps a reason to keep a copy of 1.01/1.02 on the hard drive! There's been a few posts about upgrade problems involving only seeing QB and the editor. Maybe if you reverse the process (keep a copy of the original executable in another directory after upgrading to 1.03), you could do this. Well, sort of. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 why would you want to tweak the map? Seems to me that the random map generator does a fine job. Changing it seems a little questionable (even in single player). It seems to me to take some of the challenge away and realism. No commander I know of ever could "tweak" his terrain. No accusations or malice intended, just trying to understand the big deal. ------------------ Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb -Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 Hi I agree with Bill If the "feature" could be used in anyway as a way to cheat or give an opponent an advantage in a scenario then it was appropriate to have it disabled. Its no big deal. There are plenty of other maps and set ups you can open as tweak in the Scenario editor. -tom w <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bil Hardenberger: I for one am glad that feature is no longer available... DYO games are the best, and the only real way to PBEM where you KNOW that your opponent has no information on your force. Doing what you describe could be, and would be by me, thought of as a cheat. Bil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talenn Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 I liked being able to open the QBs in the editor as well. It allowed us to go in an make fine tuning tweaks to the map and/or conditions. Ground Conditions and Weather are easier to pinpoint in the editor than in the QB. Not a big deal though, we will just ignore the QB and use the scen editor for HtH play. Priest: We tweak the map every now and then to create a more interesting battle. Sometimes its a simple road addition, or bridge addition/removal. Sometimes we just want to add a river or something somewhere. We do alot of 'refereed' gaming where the two sides set up a QB and a 'ref' tweaks everything to perfection. The only reason we use the QB is to get the preset Victory Locations and the limits on force purchases by category that arent present in the Editor. All of this can be recreated in the editor of course, but it was just a convenience having it done for us. A note to those worried about cheating: There is NO WAY you can prevent cheating in this game, or any other PBEM for that matter. No, it shouldnt be encouraged (ie, not having Pwords etc), but if someone wants to cheat, its mindlessly easy. I gave up worrying about it. If someone wants to cheat, then so be it. If I find out, I just wont ever play them again. Besides, I play for fun and competition, both of which are destroyed by cheating. If I want an easy win, I'll beat up on the AI, and not waste my time (and other's) by cheating in HtH play. I dont understand why anyone would WANT to cheat, but it takes all kinds I guess. Chalk up another vote for TCP/IP play ; ) Talenn [This message has been edited by Talenn (edited 07-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex127 Posted July 28, 2000 Author Share Posted July 28, 2000 Priest, I'm not talking about tweaking the "map" or terrain. It's just to tweak the units, whether mine or the Ai's. As new as I am at this, the Ai seems way more powerful to me than it does to you veterans. Intel Weenie, as you said, I'll just keep a copy of Version 1.01 around for just such a purpose. Especially since I only play Single Player. But, it would have been great to use it on the larger maps that are now created when you can choose a larger number of points. Yes, I know I can do the same thing in the Editor, but, the QB "Auto Picks" both sides Units much better than I could. Thats one of the things I like so much about it. I've even written down some samples of the Units that the QB picks for battles for a certain number of points. I told you I was a newbie. Also, it seemed sometimes that QB Random Maps are a little different than Editor Random Maps. Unless the "exact" same processes are being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Pattison Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 In a related feature that was removed, you now longer can open operations in the scenario editor after you have played a battle and check on the progress of the operation. Also, you used to be able to save operation in progress as a new operation and the play from the other side. I used both these features in the process of operation design to figure out the operations shortcomings without having to play the whole bloody series of battles. I hope that BTS puts things like that back in, but allows you to password protect your designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatsby Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I really really wish this be put back in...I liked creating a quick battle for my company and then going in and changing the names and experience level of my squads,..Please put this back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnh3_cm Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Seems potential cheaters are calling the shots these days, if this isn't just an oversight. And one good reason to tweak the map is to fix the annoying buildings across roads problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatsby Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 This happened with ASL too....The game went in the direction of the people who are interested in playing tournaments and "important" games...The guys who are essentially playing soldiers are thought of as a lesser breed... What is frustrating is that the designers of these games don't see what's in front of their eyes...Even before this game came out there was a meta campaign formed...There has been a number of RPG's starting with an incredible turnout.... If you search campaigns you will see that last summer I asked for a nukber of small enhancements...The ability to be able to copy units from scenarios to another, the ability to be able edit scenario/operation, and individual squads...to be able to copy maps or portions thereof from one scenario to another or to transfer a scenario to an operation... Personally I would like to be able to have a list of all the names of the guys and who were the casulities but I understand that this will never be done.. I have been doing that myself..Because you can keep track of casulities... These things were all promised so I assume they wilbe showing up in time but I have to admit that this latest move in the direction of anti-cheating makes me nervous..The game will go in the direction of how can we play this a game and those guys who would like to pretend ..well.. they are not really playing the game... Oh and where is the quick battle generator for operations? This game could be the perfect fit for all of us if only there wasn't this hint of snobbery about what we do with it.. What i would like and try to do is play SASL with this game.. Take a company through the war...I understand that cadsulaities would be high but it would be neat to see that one BAR guys in the second platoon who survives...Or that regular squad that gets obliterated..There is natural human tendency to play and anthropamorphazize anything we come in contact with including a bunch of numbers on a screen John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 I too am disappointed that this feature was removed. Perhaps an option could be added to the scenario "parameters" screen that would "lock" the scenario. If this option were not selected, the scenario would be accesible as it was under v1.0-.02. Regards, The Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 Just a quick word on the cheating thing, not that I suspect any of my current PBEM opponents to be cheating of course but just in case a future opponent should try a bit of dirty work, what signs are there to look out for? Except for getting completely thrashed from the start of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted September 20, 2000 Share Posted September 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alex127: I'm not talking about tweaking the "map" or terrain. It's just to tweak the units, whether mine or the Ai's. As new as I am at this, the Ai seems way more powerful to me than it does to you veterans. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Then the only tweaking necessary is to award yourself with more resources, as optional in the handicap system... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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