Guest Pillar Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Victory Flags. They completely ruin FOW. Example: I'm playing the germans waiting for an allied invasion consisting of mostly troops. I see a flag located in a patch of forest turn american. Incoming! The artillerly falls on their poor invisisble heads giving me a kill for something I consider "Gamey". While I can combat the problem in single player by simply turning off victory flags, it's a multi-player issue for sure. Also, the ai seems to work its strategies around these flags. For example, if the attack is coming from the north and the computer is moving down the west flank, and I take a flag on the east flank, his forces mysteriously begin to shift (even though he can't see me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott C Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 That sounds quite odd to me. AFAIK, and my own experience bears this out, the only units counted towards deciding how a flag shows up are the units you can actually see. This can, of course, lead to a situation where both sides see the same flag as their own because they haven't spotted each other. Under this system, FOW isn't affected at all because it only takes into account what you can already see. The AI works this way, too - it goes for the flags, of course, though in an intelligent manner. But it shouldn't know any more about who's holding them than you would in its situation. However, it seems you mean something different. Did the flag in question actually change with NO US forces visible in its vicinity? You were playing with full FOW, I assume? If so, it would be a problem, yes, but one running quite contrary to how the system has been explained to work, so it would probably be a bug fixed in 1.02. ------------------ Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 I just tested and the flags are working correctly. The flags that you see are based on the units you can see. Yes, you can show a flag as yours when in reality it is under control of your opponent. Flags do not wreck FOW, read up on them under search or in the manual. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 I believe you both may be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 In addition, Pillar, in custom-built battles flags can be "dummy" flags in the defender's eyes. They act in every way like real VLs, but count for NO points. This re-creates how the defender didn't always know what the attacker's objective really was. It forces the defender to cover all the possible appropriate objectives, and gives the attacker a chance to do feint attacks, etc. Also, if you turn off the flags, how do you know where you're supposed to be defending, and whether you're doing a good job or not? DjB [This message has been edited by Doug Beman (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernstein Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 I recently found myself relying too much on the flags! I'd been pummeling a house with several squads, a LMG, and a half-track -- not really because the house mattered, but because it was something to shoot at in an inactive sector. A squad of defenders returned fire for a few minutes, and fled in disarray. My flag appeared on the building. "Aha!", I said, "here's a good place for my AT team to rest up." So I marched the AT team indoors, where they were unpleasantly surprised to find a second squad of infantry laying low. OUCH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Based on the above, I now understand the VF's and appreciate them. Saw a pic somewhere a while ago with a flag that said "Bogus"... What the heck is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 A scenario designer can designate. for example, 3 possible objectives. The Attacking player then picks which one he/she wants to truly be the one he goes after. The defending play sees all three objective flags, and must plan to defend all three. The attacker see the real objective and the other two maps are shown as bogus. Hope I explained it well enough. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSCFan Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Actually, there can also be random flags (i.e. not chosen by the attacker). Which flag is the real one is selected at random at the beginnin. This is the case in the Drop to Destiny scenario. I always play with full FoW and have yet to see the flags give away information. They stay a gray question mark until observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 In my current CE PBEM it is now turn 9 and not a single shot has been fired. I play the US and I have 3 VL's under control. The closest friendly units to the one on the right US flank was about 80 meter away when in turned into a US flag So dumping artillery on that spot probably wouldn't hurt them). Now, I know the woods on the German side must be crawling with Germans, but I can't see any of them. I'm 99% positive my opponent has control over the VL (hell, we all know the scenario inside out) in the woods. I only see a questionmark flag. That's how it's supposed to be, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 That is correct, you cannot see troops there, you have none fo yours there, so the question mark. This wayt he flags do NOT mess up FOW. Rune <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju: In my current CE PBEM it is now turn 9 and not a single shot has been fired. I play the US and I have 3 VL's under control. The closest friendly units to the one on the right US flank was about 80 meter away when in turned into a US flag So dumping artillery on that spot probably wouldn't hurt them). Now, I know the woods on the German side must be crawling with Germans, but I can't see any of them. I'm 99% positive my opponent has control over the VL (hell, we all know the scenario inside out) in the woods. I only see a questionmark flag. That's how it's supposed to be, isn't it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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