Runyan99 Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Does anybody else feel that CM's 20X20 tileset for creating maps is a bit too large? Creating detailed maps with things like segmented buildings, ditches, small streams, winding roads, etc can all be difficult or impossible using such a broad building block. Sometimes it is like trying to paint a portrait using a paintbrush for a house. I would especially like to have the ability to create more detail in places like towns and villages. Is there any chance of reducing this in the future to a 10X10 or even 5x5 tileset (along with a macro-tool for placing larger blocks of terrain at a time), or is this something that is too harwired into the code to be changed? I can see where it might be a problem converting scenarios already created using a 20X20 set. At any rate, I encourage BTS to work towards more detail and variety in the maps, and to give the scenario designers more flexibility in creating maps. ------------------ "Artillery is a terrible thing. God, I hate it." Pvt. David Webster 101st airborne 1942-45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Well, yeah I have thought about that too. I'd like to see a 10x10, but if there were going to be mods to the editor, Id like to see the time devoted to adding a greater selection of tile types. Maybe CM2. TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 I'd like to see the tileset dropped down to a 10X10 for CM2 also, but Im with Teach on this one I would rather see more tiles for now ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 I agree with both, smaller tiles and more tile selection. I wonder though if it is hard coded. Those details on smaller tiles would really make a difference at eyelevel ------------------ "It's a hardball world son. We've got to keep our heads until this peace craze blows over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 Smaller tiles would be nice, but all thing considered, I can live without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durruti Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 I agree, Runyan. Cities, towns, even villages just don't look European without joined-up terraced housing which is only possible with the large city blockhouses currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted July 2, 2000 Author Share Posted July 2, 2000 I agree that more tiles are badly needed. I will start a list. I tried to find previous suggestions. Here is what I have so far: 1. Train track Bridge 2. Train-Road crossing 3. Cemetary 4. Orchard (looks different than scattered trees, with fruit trees and less undergrowth and concealment) 5. Gully 6. Ditch/Trench 7. Vineyard 8. Wood bridge (the small bridge is paved) 9. Streams 10. Wood fence? 11. Runway 12. Pontoon Bridge 13. Wood chruch 14. More varied housing, city structures Anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 Minor nitpicks Cory, but I am quite sure you will be hard-pressed to find wooden churches in NW Europe today or in 1944-5. As for wooden bridges, they are also quite rare, and I believe they were then. A lot of the old roads go back to medieval times, and it is not unusual today to find stone-bridges on minor roads dating back hundreds of years and still being used. So I don't think these tiles are needed. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 And I would question your assumption about there being much undergrowth and cover in Scattered Trees. The manual does include this in its description: "These are single trees with little or no brush, standing in loose groups together or along a road. Orchards fall into this terrain type as well." So a discrete tile for orchards would be redundant as far as game play is concerned, though esthetically it might be nice. Except as noted by Andreas, I think your other suggestions are great, especially gullies, ditches, and streams, which offer lots of tactical possibilities for both attacker and defender. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 I'd love smaller tiles and more variety to textures, sizes & shapes to buildings, etc. A smaller tile size will increase the memory requirements for CM though (and slow down the CPU with more LOS calcs). As for a "macro" tool to fill in areas... Hold down the Shift key and paint; you'll get a 5x5 paintbrush to fill in areas (if you didn't know this already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffen Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 i think the fellows at MADMATT MODS could make new Tiles now for CM 1 (maybe they cant im not sure whats involved)thats if they have time and want too.have to agree more tiles would be exellent . i would say all these sugestions and more could make it into CM 2 .trenchs ,gun emplacments ,sandbags ,various pillboxs.battle damaged buildings ( 1 wall or 2 walls etc ) battle damaged tanks etc)all this type of stuff will add futher weight to alraedy the best game around and help map makers . changeing the tile size should be left for CM2 ,but it is a good thing that maps can contain more detail.thus createing new and interesting challanges to gamers and map makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 I, too, would like to see finer detail on the tiles, say, 10X10. The problem with changing it is that I believe the 20X20 tile size is such an integral nature of the code that changing it would be a major undertaking. Perhaps such an undertaking can be looked at for CM2? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/000223.html has some good discussion on the nature of CMs tile system. Jason (and the Searchonauts) Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 Nope, no new tiles for CM1! There is more to coding a new tile than just the texture. Cover and concealment as well as programming the Ai on how to HANDLE the tile would all have to be done and that is why there won't be any. One more thing, if you were to add in 10x10 or 5x5 meter tile you are in effect doubling or quadrupoling the work that the PC has to do to display and crunch the graphics. Take a 800x800 map for instance, if we bump up the tiles to 5x5 it would have as much detail as a 3200x3200 size map. Create one of those (well you cant but go as large as you can) and see how fast it runs, then factor in that is with the horizons being drawn at approximately 2000 meters out or so. What you are asking for is 4 times the detial but crammed into the same space...Mighty big FPS hit! The kinds of detail that you want is not neccesary for a game of this scale. You really think a Company or Battalion commander is going to worry about a small 3 meter wide creek? Also imagine the time it would take to BUILD a map with that level of detail. Sure it would be pretty but a good map already takes DAYS to create and test, what you are suggesting would make the map creating prohibetively time consuming... In the future I am sure the Level of Detail in the tiles will increase but it aint gonna happen in CM1... IIRC Steve said that 20x20 meters was the tile set size they will stick with through out the series (CM1-CM4)... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 07-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted July 3, 2000 Share Posted July 3, 2000 Just being a math nerd, 10x10 would be 4 times the tiles, 5x5 would be 16 times the tiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 3, 2000 Share Posted July 3, 2000 Just as a side note, has anyone seen the terrain in Motorcross madness 2?? Oh man! It is a freaking thing of beauty. And they just released a terrain editor though I dont know how intuitive or powerful it is. TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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