Lobo Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 For what it's worth, I would dearly like to see Big Time continue making games where we can play US or British soldiers. I just can't get "involved" with playing the Russians vs Germans full time. I know many won't agree, but just had to voice myself I think a nice North African or similar battle area would do nicely. Or, Anzio, Italy, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Little hard to play Brits or Americans on the Eastern front. And since the east had many more things going on than anyother theatre, well...I dont think that is such a good idea. Ofcourse I am all for a Japan-S.E.A. game, but BTS has pretty much said they have more pressing things to do. Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." MantaRays 5 Pages Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Well Lobo, Combat Mission 3 is going to cover the entire Mediterranean Theater. However, CM 2 is going to definitely be the Eastern Front. You mean, you don't wanna see those T-34s and KV's take on German PzIVs and Tigers? ------------------ "Why don't we say that we took this one chance, and fought!" "Stupid humans. Hahahahahahaha!" --from the film Battlefield Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo Posted May 5, 2000 Author Share Posted May 5, 2000 OB&G, I know that, Historically, the Eastern Front was very important and contained some of the largest tank battles. When Close Combat put out their third game (Eastern front) I didn't buy it and only recently did. I immediately applied the Western Front patch to it. I just like to feel a "part" of the game and some "ownership" for the "men". I know it's just a game, but a good war game can bring history that much closer for me. I have never enjoyed playing the Germans or Russians, even though their toys were generally bigger and better Now, having said that.. I have found myself playing the Germans many times in the CM demo (for variety). Also I don't "attach" myself to them as much, I do still use it to try out my tactical abilities. So, (sigh) I will probably get CM2 when it comes out and who knows, since I find my self playing the Germans in the demo, maybe you can teach an "old dog new tricks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 You seldom play the Germans? Ahhh, they're the funnest! Although, it is very gratifying to blow up those heavy-duty German toys. ------------------ "Why don't we say that we took this one chance, and fought!" "Stupid humans. Hahahahahahaha!" --from the film Battlefield Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 I too was an old "Just play the Allies" guy. Every game, Steel Panthers, Pacific War, etc... I played the Western Allies. However, once I got War In Russia (in a Wargames pack) I finally got around to playing the Axis and the Russians one day. You will be amazed at how interesting the Eastern Front is. Such a large arena to fight on, with such different terrain and equipment. It is the perfect game of Quality vs Quantity, then Quality vs Quantity and Quality. Indeed, I played many of my older games as the Axis, instead of the Western Allies, and experienced an entire new game. Strategy for the Axis, even down to Tactical warfare, is MUCH different than that of the Allies. I was so bored doing campaigns with the Western Allies in Steel Panthers, then I had the extreme pleasure in starting a campaign as the Germans. Totally new strategies had to be developed in order to win against virtually impenetrable Soviet tanks that appear in vast numbers. Sure, Games proposing American and British forces will probably sell many copies, but, most wargamers are extremely interested in the Eastern Front, so, there would probably be as many, if not more, sales of an Eastern Front version than any other single version of CM. The difficulty of attachment might be a difficulty experienced in remembering the German names. If you are English speaking, English names will stick better in your mind. With enough exposure, Hans will become as common to you as Joe. Also, if you just play as the Allies you are only really using half of the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zulu1 Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 I think CM2 is gonna rock. In the big scheme of things, the battles of the Western Front were small potatoes. The Russians tore the guts out of the German war machine. The Russians lost 10,000,000 in WW2. The US lost I believe 300,000 in both threatres. Stalingrad, Kursk, T34's, Su 85's, Elefants, Ferdinands, CM2 is going to have a wide variety of struggles. I can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 In the contrary to LOBO I love to play the Germans. I don't play the Allied nor the Russians for that matter. I have been growing a feeling of pity and despair for those German youg boys so blindly lead by Hitler. I mean they had everything to win. Great material, great leaders (not the big brass like Hitler,Göring, Keitel, Jodel or Himmler), a great fighting spirit, great scientists. Don't get me wrong, I hate and loath the Nazis. I'm just talking about the poor soldier who is only doing is soldier's duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostro Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Well, Lobo. Do you like movies or novels with non-US characters? Can't you understand "Doctor Zhivago"? Egypt history begins for you when it becomes an english colony? You don't hear Beethoven, as a german musician? Mostro, a human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 HA! Imagine the suffering of us Swedish wargamers! We haven’t had a war for almost 200 years! Not a soul in sight to relate to! And the last wars weren’t very good at that coming to think of it! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
przy Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 I had heard somewhere that the Soviets lost closer to 25 million? Who knows for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mch Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Soviet losses: 29 MILLION!!!!! U.S. Losses:600 THOUSAND. ------------------ Horrido! michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Soviet losses: 29 MILLION!!!!! That is the TOTAL number of Soviet deaths, including some 18 million civilians. The number of military deaths is somewhere near 11 million and even from that number 3 million were killed in German POW camps. Mattias wrote: Imagine the suffering of us Swedish wargamers! We haven’'t had a war for almost 200 years! Not a soul in sight to relate to! And the last wars weren't very good at that coming to think of it! And most of those (later) wars were fought using mostly Finnish troops... (War of the Hats 1741-43, Gustav's War 1788-90, and Finland's War 1808-09). Even before, Finns formed some 1/3 of troops in Swedish army while Finland's population was 1/6 of the combined Sweden-Finland. The only notable exception was the latter part of the 30-Year War when some 2/3 of Swedish army was composed of German and Scottish mercenaries. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tss: That is the TOTAL number of Soviet deaths, including some 18 million civilians. The number of military deaths is somewhere near 11 million and even from that number 3 million were killed in German POW camps. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And, the 5 Million remaining POW's liberated by the Russians were all imprisoned and died there considered to be traitors for surrendering. Total US casualties 600 000? Maybe including WIA and MIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 And, the 5 Million remaining POW's liberated by the Russians were all imprisoned and died there considered to be traitors for surrendering. That is another popular legend. First, there were only a total of 4.5 million Soviet POWs and about 3 million of them died. That leaves 1.5 million liberated POWs. Second, not all were sent to Siberia. A large number was, that is true. I think that the current figures are in few hundreds of thousands, about 10-20% of the total. The convicted ones mostly got either 15+10 or 25+10 year sentences (the first figure is the years in camp and the second figure the years without civil rights). Third, not all those sent to Siberia or beyond died there, though most did. I recall seeing a figure that a healthy person had a 1/3 chance of surviving a 15-year term. (I'd roughly extrapolate this to 1/6 chance to survive a 25-year term. Of course, one has to remember that German held POWs were definitely not healthy.) There were some POW groups that were dealt with particularly heavy hand. For example, of the 750 POWs that Finns took during Winter War, only one was not sent Siberia, and that happened by accident. (It seems that the judge lost his papers and didn't dare to report it. He then sent the former POW away quietly and pretended that he hadn't even existed.) -Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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