Strategy Tips - CMBN - BP2 - Iron Fist Campaign

[WimO]

The following tips do not include cheats. I try to do what real life generals do.

1. Know your opponent. In this case - the game designer - Ithikial.

1.a. Most or all of Ithikial's Normandy maps have a common denominator - when populated by bocage, most of that bocage is impenetratble, having very few breaks. While I personally do not agree with that interpretation of the fighting in Normandy, a good commander makes that best of the hand that is dealt him/her so get on with it soldier!

1.b Ithikial's A.I. forces appear to be 'abundant' and 'static' with little 'triggered' maneuvering. We'll take advantage of this under planning below.

Which leads to the next point.

2. Planning.

2.a.In the first instance I mean know the map. I suggest unpacking the campaign and loading the scenario into the Scenario Editor. DO NOT LOOK AT ANYTHING EXCEPT THE MAP FEATURES. Do not look at the enemy deployment or objectives or forces. Mark all of the breaks through the bocage from your deployment area to your objectives and trace a path. That way you avoid wasting time entering dead-end fields.

2.b. Redeploy your forces to be able to follow the most expeditious route. That includes the one that also provides least exposure and best available friendly overwatch areas.

2.c. Under that assumption that the A.I. is likely static (except for possible reinforcements). Choose the best point of rupture of the enemy line and concentrate all of your HE assets to fire on that location (if you have HE assets). For example. In scenario 2 of Iron Fist, after winning scenario 1, there are really only two reasonable points for the Germans to break through the American perimeter. Since the perimeter has two touch objectives that converge at the main, south, highway, that is the point at which everything should be focused. Drop all the HE on that area and any locations from which the Americans can overwatch that area.

Result: The outcome is a breakthrough with a bit of effort but far less effort than trying to hit multiple points in the line.  If you want, you can just ignore the very abundant American forces sitting doing little or nothing all along the line waiting for you. Unless ... you want to mop them up for more victory points.

2.d. Preparing for the American counter-attack.

Based on 'knowing Ithikial's maps', it is easy to spot only a few routes that any approaching American armor can use to attack your forces. Try to set up your A/T assets, SP guns, in keyhole positions to overwatch those locations and you will soon have a turkey shoot with American vehicle wrecks piling up and creating a traffic jam. Easy peasy.

SUMMARY: Do what real commanders do. Make a map and plan accordingly.

Panzer Marsch!

 

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, WimO said:

SUMMARY: Do what real commanders do.

That's a great set of pointers Wim, and having played the First of Iron standalone battle H2H I know what you're saying (except for the static bit).  During play-testing I also added some gaps in one of the earlier battles with Ithikial's blessing.

A small however - in real life I'm not sure a WW2 commander could examine 'the map' in that sort of detail, and identify (pre-battle) gaps in bocage etc.?  They might be able to with very good aerial recon photos I suppose.

[WimO]

I

4 hours ago, Vacillator said:

A small however - in real life I'm not sure a WW2 commander could examine 'the map' in that sort of detail, and identify (pre-battle) gaps in bocage etc.?  They might be able to with very good aerial recon photos I suppose.

I agree. My method is a fix that I feel reasonably compensates for the historical fact that infantry of both sides frequently pushed their way through bocage at points they felt were safe or necessary, often with difficulty, sometimes thorny. If the game played historically there would be many places to push through the bocage and little wasted time wandering about in the wrong places and getting lost in dead end fields. Knowing where the few gaps are compensates in part.

[Warts 'n' all]

I've only taken a quick gander at the 1st Mission. I didn't like the fact that there are no Set-up Zones. But, then I'm a whinging pommie bast*rd.

[Warts 'n' all]

And sadly, the return of troops getting stuck in the hedgerows, and running towards the enemy and getting themselves killed if they come under fire makes BP2 a bit of a pain in the you know where.

[Vacillator]

On 11/30/2024 at 10:28 AM, Warts 'n' all said:

troops getting stuck in the hedgerows, and running towards the enemy and getting themselves killed if they come under fire

I enjoyed testing some of the BP, but I did struggle with some of the bocage 'features'.  I wouldn't blame the designer for that though.

On 11/30/2024 at 3:17 AM, WimO said:

I agree. My method is a fix that I feel reasonably compensates for the historical fact that infantry of both sides frequently pushed their way through bocage at points they felt were safe or necessary, often with difficulty, sometimes thorny. If the game played historically there would be many places to push through the bocage and little wasted time wandering about in the wrong places and getting lost in dead end fields. Knowing where the few gaps are compensates in part.

Yes, I would also totally agree with this.

[Mudhugger]

With my poor eyesight I made these mods, that I've been playing around with.

The bocage one is a low-bocage opening. Just changed the name of the mdr.files

The low-bocage is a wood fence opening.

They make finding the gaps much easier. I don't know how much, if any, it effects line of sight. But I just play more carefully around the gaps. I have had troops knocked off at the old gaps any way. I think they look pretty good.

bocage-stub.mdr low-bocage-stub.mdr

[Ithikial_AU]

Hehehe. @WimO must be trying to get inside my head.  

My recent trip to Normandy and battlefield tour helped solidify my thoughts on bocage*. We walked for a few hours through some heavy bocage area leading towards St Lo and there were pretty much no small man sized gaps what so ever all morning, unless it was a gate or wide opening for a vehicle. The smaller gaps we stopped and looked at were almost certainly made by the troops to sight AT guns and or HMGs rather than for troops to launch an assault from. Farmers still used barbed wire from 1944 in places to plug up these hollows. You certainly aren't going to spot small gaps in aerial photos. I even struggled spotting gates etc, so many that are placed on the maps are artistic license on my part.

The main purpose of the 17SS campaign and standalone H2H scenario for the Germans is that you are going in with the wrong tools for the job. No turret StuG's and a lack of heavy artillery are the major limitations for this hasty June 13th assault. Same problems Jerry faced on the day.

Oh and the first version of the H2H monster battle, the German player steamrolled the USA defender. German forces were pegged back and the restricted ways to get forward give the US player a chance early on with their comparatively limited forces.

 

* The game family is actually probably missing a type of bocage - a 12 foot high dirt and hedge mound you can't actually see over or as an infantryman position yourself against for a firing position.

[Warts 'n' all]

12 hours ago, Vacillator said:

 I wouldn't blame the designer for that though.

Neither would I. Not knowing Sweet Fanny Adams about computers my money would be on the engine upgrade needed to play BP2. It appears to have reintroduced bugs that got fixed a few years back. Ho hum. 

[Ithikial_AU]

1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Neither would I. Not knowing Sweet Fanny Adams about computers my money would be on the engine upgrade needed to play BP2. It appears to have reintroduced bugs that got fixed a few years back. Ho hum. 

The update that included BP2 content had no code updates to the best of my knowledge.

[Warts 'n' all]

18 minutes ago, Ithikial_AU said:

The update that included BP2 content had no code updates to the best of my knowledge.

Thanks for your reply, Mate. I'm not sure how these things work. But, to my old Pommy eyes there certainly appears to have been a change somewhere along the line between 4.03 and 4.05. 

[WimO]

@Ithikial_AU Hey, Ithy; I have no disagreement with your observation that the bocage had few or no notable gaps. None at all. My point is that infantry of both sides 'pushed' their way through intact bocage when necessary. Personal accounts of the first few days of Operation Tonga mention numerous occasions. So then the question is how to simulate this in CMBN? The first 'issue' is that CMBN's program code does not permit infantry to push through bocage (unlike some boardgames like ASL). In my interpretation this is an historical oversight. That said, back to "How to simulate this?" The only solution is to add gaps. Granted, the 'look' is unhistorical, as per your point of 'no gaps', but the 'play' approaches historical a bit better. That is my position.

I do wish to acknowledge, and hopefully I have done so in the past, that you have invested a great deal of time creating large and gorgeous maps, which I appreciate. You and I both know how much time is invested in doing so. I feel it a pity that in some cases significant portions of some maps are unplayable due to the lack of ability to traverse certain areas.

Once again, thank you for you time investment in creating.

Cheers

[JM Stuff]

 

Hey Wim, @WimO, time to created new wonderfull mapsscencamp with this little help..

Well guys I dont know if this will be usefulll but this is the overview of all bocage elements regroup by 4, present in CMBN !

Top view

 

Names and sizes of all of them read from left to right and top to down !

right view exemple from the x wide mdr is on the top right of the screen  

Left view from the x wide mdr down to the left of the screen

Front view here the x wide mdr is on the right side of the screen

 

Hope this will help some of you ?!

Edited Tuesday at 03:11 PM by JM Stuff

[JM Stuff]

On 12/2/2024 at 6:31 AM, Mudhugger said:

With my poor eyesight I made these mods, that I've been playing around with.

The bocage one is a low-bocage opening. Just changed the name of the mdr.files

The low-bocage is a wood fence opening.

They make finding the gaps much easier. I don't know how much, if any, it effects line of sight. But I just play more carefully around the gaps. I have had troops knocked off at the old gaps any way. I think they look pretty good.

bocage-stub.mdr 15.64 kB · 2 downloads low-bocage-stub.mdr 5.96 kB · 3 downloads

Interesting effort with yours mdr files guy 

[WimO]

@JM StuffHey JM: Can I get a copy of the low bocage mdr files to try out?

[JM Stuff]

22 minutes ago, WimO said:

@JM StuffHey JM: Can I get a copy of the low bocage mdr files to try out?

Wim if you unzip the brz in the Modtools, from all the bocage mdr, you will have already all the files that you need, or do you mean the files that i took a screenshot ?

Terrain files are in the brz Normandy v100b. and folders Walls !!

Edited yesterday at 02:49 AM by JM Stuff

[PEB14]

On 12/2/2024 at 6:01 PM, WimO said:

@Ithikial_AU Hey, Ithy; I have no disagreement with your observation that the bocage had few or no notable gaps. None at all. My point is that infantry of both sides 'pushed' their way through intact bocage when necessary. Personal accounts of the first few days of Operation Tonga mention numerous occasions. So then the question is how to simulate this in CMBN? The first 'issue' is that CMBN's program code does not permit infantry to push through bocage (unlike some boardgames like ASL). In my interpretation this is an historical oversight. That said, back to "How to simulate this?" The only solution is to add gaps. Granted, the 'look' is unhistorical, as per your point of 'no gaps', but the 'play' approaches historical a bit better. That is my position.

Absolutely.

Even though some thick, dense hedegrows are/were indeed impassable even for foot soldiers, it was on many occasions possible to force one's way through.

@WimO mentions Operation Tonga to support his views; similarly, US paratroopers accounts illustrate that the hedgerows were an immense obstacle to LOS, not to foot soldiers movement.

And by the way, I don't understand the reason why low bocage hedges are impassable in CMBN while similar hedges are not in all the other games... Welcome to the jungle?!

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, PEB14 said:

I don't understand the reason why low bocage hedges are impassable in CMBN while similar hedges are not in all the other games..

Well BFC feel that bocage was largely impassible and they reused the same model files for large but not as dense hedges in other titles. So they aren't the same thing but they show in game using the same model so there we are...

[PEB14]

12 hours ago, A Canadian Cat said:

Well BFC feel that bocage was largely impassible and they reused the same model files for large but not as dense hedges in other titles. So they aren't the same thing but they show in game using the same model so there we are...

Certainly. The drawback is, "low bocage" in the Netherlands and Eastern France in September 44 scenarios are impassable in CMBN while the same feature in the same areas is crossable in later CMFB...

I hope that CM3 will ad some more uniformity in terrain features!