Map making - Bridges bumps

[PEB14]

I can't get rid of the two bumps on each side of the rail bridge, whatever the levations I set. Any hint around?

 

[Butschi]

Oh yes, please, can someone explain exactly how bridges work?

[Suchy]

Sorry, it's not possible to get ride of these bumps

[MOS:96B2P]

4 hours ago, PEB14 said:

I can't get rid of the two bumps on each side of the rail bridge, whatever the levations I set. Any hint around?

I play around with the elevations until it looks right. You may also want to see if changing the type of water tile does anything (water, shallow ford, deep ford). I would try to also terrain lock all the tiles to include one next to the bridge. 

 @Suchy do you mean it's not possible to get rid of the bumps for this specific bridge type in this specific title? I know I've played scenarios with railroad bridges that did not have those bumps. But if it is a problem limited to a certain bridge or game family maybe I missed it.

[benpark]

I would use the same height ("15") as the road/rail alongside it in the three squares alongside the riverbank, on each side. The two alongside are a "14" height, currently. That may level the rail a little better, as that looks like the terrain is getting pinched by having the two adjoining tiles at a lower level (auto-set, as there isn't a tile height indicated by you).

[PEB14]

2 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I play around with the elevations until it looks right. You may also want to see if changing the type of water tile does anything (water, shallow ford, deep ford). I would try to also terrain lock all the tiles to include one next to the bridge.

Thank you. I had played with eleveations before posting, with and without ditchlock, but to no avail. I hadn't tried the water type though; now I did but unfortunately result is the same…

59 minutes ago, benpark said:

I would use the same height ("15") as the road/rail alongside it in the three squares alongside the riverbank, on each side. The two alongside are a "14" height, currently. That may level the rail a little better, as that looks like the terrain is getting pinched by having the two adjoining tiles at a lower level (auto-set, as there isn't a tile height indicated by you).

Thank you as well! Interesting, this combination I hadn't try. Do you mean something like that?

Apparently it has some effect; the bump has disappeard but there the railroad isn't flat (lower level on the bridge):

The levation of the river tile has no influence (wether it is "13" or "15" gives the same result.

[CarlXII]

Your last picture is the best i have been able to achive also...

[Ivan Zaitzev]

Try a bigger bridge, or maybe try the same you tried in the first picture but delete the track tiles connecting to the bridge.

Something else to try is setting the water to 15 in the bridge tile.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Ivan Zaitzev

[Artkin]

Yes I agree, especially from the second picture it seems a larger bridge is necessary

[PEB14]

Building a railbridge in Combat Mission: the 21st Century Civil Engineering PROJECT!!!! Join the international consortium!

Thanks everybody, I feel a lot less lonely!

50 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

Something else to try is setting the water to 15 in the bridge tile.

Already tried, visually it doen't change anything at all (in any tile) !

 

50 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

 maybe try the same you tried in the first picture but delete the track tiles connecting to the bridge.

I hadn't tried previously; unsurprisingly, the result is that there are missing tracks between on both sides of the bridge…

 

50 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

Try a bigger bridge, or maybe try the same you tried in the first picture but delete the track tiles connecting to the bridge.

For a reason I fail to understand, it seem that the bridge is ALWAYS a little lower than the tracks on both sides…

[Suchy]

@PEB14

Bumps or not flat railroad - this is a Hamlet's questions  It's not possible to have flat railroads with bridges in all CM games

[benpark]

You also have rivers at right angles to the bridges. You could try to offset that by moving the river tile at the right angle over one tile. That can "pinch" the terrain.

If this map is from a historical source, check that the right angle river-course, as it could be better served by using a stream tile. Those look most realistic (generally) by placing the stream tiles, then pushing the stream tiles down one level from the surrounding terrain. You could also add a mix of mud/marsh/tall grass for the denser areas under the stream tile, which also provides cover.

The secondary thing to think about when making maps is how the AI will use them. Bridges challenge the path-finding if they are surrounded by other choices, or explicit blockages. If the terrain gets to where you have it now, I may place a vehicle on the map, and run a pathing test for the bridges and waterways. That's part of the design challenge, to get the tools to all work together. That takes testing the thing fairly often if it gets complex.

Edited May 30, 2023 by benpark

[benpark]

Two other things that may help, from looking at the image-

-You have a lot of "ditch lock" usage. That cuts down on the engine's ability to make smooth transitions. Useful, but overkill in many situations.

-The water has various heights. It's always at the lowest elevation set, so that may be confusing extra numbers in what can start to look like The Matrix scroll after a while. The types of tiles you place alongside the riverbanks will impact how gradual a slope you may get going into the water. IIRC, mud is the most gradual. Look at real terrain as a guide on how to do it, and whatever images you can find of the actual areas. That helps the most, and gets evaluated in the 3D view, rather than just placing it and hoping for the best. It looks like you have rocky terrain set. That may also be bumping that terrain a bit.

Edited May 30, 2023 by benpark

[George MC]

Load of possible issues as others have pointed out with how your trying to do these bridges. Another thing to try is having the banks on either side of the bridge structure same height as the bridge tile. You also often need longer bridges than you think on diagonals. Try to avoid ditch lock with bridges if you can - often causes weird stuff to happen. Also use try using shallow ford tiles to begin with - they bank sides of the 'river' will be less steep. Bridges can often be a lot of trial and error as many terrain tile permutations cos odd off-sets. rail bridges for some reason are the most problematic I've found. If you have it check out the bridges in the Dying Sun scenario - gave me fits they did getting em as good as i could get em...

 

Edit to add : just had a look at your image. You are trying to make water flow downhill - that won't work in CM - water defaults to the lowest elevation regardless of what value you set. If you need a water feature to flow downhill you'll have to consider the lowest height then once you move beyond that use stream tiles and whatever terrain feature gives the best effect e.g. if you want it impassable use say marsh or heavy forest tiles.

Edited May 30, 2023 by George MC

[kohlenklau]

Do your bridges suffer from bumps?

Perhaps new Smoothevor is for you?

Talk to your doctor about this once a map solution to your bridge bump issues.

Side effects include headaches, irritability, amnesia and insomnia.

If you are breast feeding, discontinue use of Smoothevor.

[PEB14]

3 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

Do your bridges suffer from bumps?

Perhaps new Smoothevor is for you?

Talk to your doctor about this once a map solution to your bridge bump issues.

Side effects include headaches, irritability, amnesia and insomnia.

If you are breast feeding, discontinue use of Smoothevor.

Smoothevor might be required for all CM map-making people, not only those sufferinf from bridges-bumps-bugs (3B)...

You get headaches from the bridges, irritability from the roads, insomnias from the hedges, and the streams should drive you crazy.

If you don't suffer from the above, then you SHALL talk to your doctor!