New campaign for CMBN: "Mission Boston - Objective La Fiere".

[Vacillator]

6 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

If you wanted to just share your thoughts with @WimO you can always go to his profile and send him a private note. 

Or even easier, just hover your cursor over the @ link and select Message.

[WimO]

As per Wart's comment, best to send AAR's to me and not spoil other's play ... or ... publish the AAR at a separate location clearly marked as SPOILER ALERT. And yes I did notice your "spoiler" comment.

Thank you for sharing that you felt a degree of lack of purpose for falling back to Les Landes with Millet. It has alerted me to the fact that I need to redefine/describe the Amfreville "assembly" points. I hope that the Designers Notes clarified the issue. I will not reveal them here.

[PEB14]

Well yes, I hesitated between PM and public AAR. And yes the "spoiler alert" in my message was too small to be useful. (Sorry the forum doesn't allow editing past a few hours… )

I'll keep posting here generic comments (like typos that Wart's does'nt care, briefing issues and the like), and PM WimO for the rest!

[Warts 'n' all]

16 minutes ago, PEB14 said:

I'll keep posting here generic comments (like typos that Wart's does'nt care, briefing issues and the like), and PM WimO for the rest!

Don't worry too much about what I say. When you get to 365 years of age you tend to get a bit cantankerous.

[PEB14]

12 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Don't worry too much about what I say. When you get to 365 years of age you tend to get a bit cantankerous.

(off topic mode ON)

.... which leads me to think: looks like we're all OLD on this forum! Is Combat Mission, especially WW2 stuff, a game for old timers only?!

(off topic mode OFF)

[PEB14]

OK, I'll play the second scenario this afternoon, but in the meantime here are my comments regarding briefing (no comment about map, not even a small typo, sorry Warts…).

No spoiler below !!!

In-between « scenario »: you probably know it, but one  of the two teams stubbornly refuses to enter the house… No issue as the second does.

LE MANOIR LEROUX
Briefing and map:
- According to the briefing, I am supposed to lead a company at 90% strength. Why do I get only one platoon plus Co HQ??? Is it only an advance party? Is it a balance issue? In any case briefing shall remove this inconsistency… because mys strategy will strongly depend upon the answer…
- Tac map makes reference to a Schwartzwalder’s unit, while the briefing does not. Either this reinforcement is planned and the briefing should mention it one way or another, or it is not planned and then vague mention of potential reinforcement may appear in the briefing. In any case the map shall be consistent with the briefing: no Schwartzwalder in the briefing would mean no Schwartzwalder on the map…

That's all folks.

It's again a 2-hours scenario so I'm pretty sure I won't be able to finish it today.

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by PEB14

[Anonymous_Jonze]

You make some beautiful maps my guy

[Vacillator]

13 hours ago, PEB14 said:

(off topic mode ON)

.... which leads me to think: looks like we're all OLD on this forum! Is Combat Mission, especially WW2 stuff, a game for old timers only?!

In general, the answer to that is probably yes.  Depends on your definition of old, but I think most here are not 'spring chickens'.

And the youth of today are happier with Star Wars Battlefront (2) than they are with Battlefront CM.  Not to mention Fortnite.

[Warts 'n' all]

Pedantry Alert

Mission 1 completed. Major Victory No casualties (apart from a light one sustained by the two man scout team sent to check out Assembly 1).

In the meantime the capture of Eglise Saint-Ferreol de Cauquigny went perfectly.

 

[PEB14]

11 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Pedantry Alert

Mission 1 completed. Major Victory No casualties (apart from a light one sustained by the two man scout team sent to check out Assembly 1).

In the meantime the capture of Eglise Saint-Ferreol de Cauquigny went perfectly.

 

My guess is you didn't try to reach Assembly 2 at all?

Did you face German counterattacks at Cauquigny?

[Warts 'n' all]

40 minutes ago, PEB14 said:

My guess is you didn't try to reach Assembly 2 at all?

Did you face German counterattacks at Cauquigny?

Your guess is correct I steered well clear of Assembly 2. The two man scout team who I mentioned were lucky to get off as lightly as they did considering they cam under fire from four different Gerry units. After that I just headed off to Millets victory location.

Counterattacks? Yes, I did. Hardly any Germans survived

[drewshotsfan]

@WimO

 

Really enjoying the campaign so far, and I've only played the first scenario! Thanks for your time and effort putting it all together for our enjoyment 

 

Which leads me to my question. I didn't play the full two hours because I hit the ceasefire button once I had achieved more than half of my objectives (55 mins in). Is that legal? There's nothing to say that you can't hit ceasefire, but it meant I ended the scenario before any possible counterattacks and achieved a major victory

 

Is hitting ceasefire allowed or do I have to play each scenario full length

 

PS Enjoy your CM retirement. Our loss

 

Drew

Edited March 23, 2023 by drewshotsfan

[PEB14]

Hi @drewshotsfan, by hitting the ceasefire button too early, you'll indeed miss AI counterattacks. When I played the first mission of Boots on the Ground, I was under attack until only 10 minutes remain.

Giving more motivations for the player in this first scenario is indeed what @WimO is trying to improve.

[drewshotsfan]

.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by drewshotsfan

[drewshotsfan]

34 minutes ago, PEB14 said:

Hi @drewshotsfan, by hitting the ceasefire button too early, you'll indeed miss AI counterattacks. When I played the first mission of Boots on the Ground, I was under attack until only 10 minutes remain.

Giving more motivations for the player in this first scenario is indeed what @WimO is trying to improve.

Thanks @PEB14

So, what you're saying is I should play through? Don't want to start the second mission without knowing which is correct @WimO

 

Thanks

 

Drew

Edited March 23, 2023 by drewshotsfan

[Warts 'n' all]

1 hour ago, drewshotsfan said:

Which leads me to my question. I didn't play the full two hours because I hit the ceasefire button once I had achieved more than half of my objectives (55 mins in). Is that legal? There's nothing to say that you can't hit ceasefire, but it meant I ended the scenario before any possible counterattacks and achieved a major victory

Is hitting ceasefire allowed or do I have to play each scenario full length

You will often see CM videos on youtube where the player ceases fire before the end. And of course there is nothing to stop you doing so. But the aim of this particular thread is to give @WimO as much feedback as possible as to how this campaign plays out. So even if you are having a hard time in a future mission I would try and stick it out to the end.

[drewshotsfan]

4 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

You will often see CM videos on youtube where the player ceases fire before the end. And of course there is nothing to stop you doing so. But the aim of this particular thread is to give @WimO as much feedback as possible as to how this campaign plays out. So even if you are having a hard time in a future mission I would try and stick it out to the end.

Thanks @Warts 'n' all

I'll rewind to my last turn and see it through to the bitter end

Appreciate your help guys

Drew

[WimO]

HITTING CEASEFIRE:

In the present version, if you hit ceasefire in Boots on the Ground you can indeed win and circumvent the action at the end of the game. That is an issue that has been corrected in version 2 to be posted later. In most of the other scenarios, if you choose ceasefire too early, you will lose. I am glad to see this discussion. It makes me consider visually hiding all objectives from the player, i.e. no ALT-J and only providing verbal objective instructions - as in real life. Got to think some more about this.

In version 2 of Boots on the Ground, you will end the game in the range of minor loss, draw and  minor victory. Both in the present version and in version 2 the German AI has three plans which vary in aggression. There were timing problems in v1 with the AI not completing  its moves to combat that have been fixed in v2 resulting in a more aggressive and 'patrolling' AI.

To me, as a miniatures wargamer, hitting the Ceasefire button when things are going your way, is like quitting playing a game across the table before time is up. An unrelated example: A friend of mine and I are co-operatively playing the campaign For King and Country. We are half way through the final scenario and are sitting on a minor Allied victory. We could quit now and win the campaign but with an hour of game time left, we don't know if the AI has anymore attack plans or not. So we are going to play it out. Why miss the rest of the story?

Maybe I just need to add an introductory note: If you want to role play the full experience of these historical events, do not ever select the Cease Fire command. If you do, you will miss out on some of the excitement, suspense, and yes - occasional boredom.

In the final analysis, it's all about what YOU, the player want when you are playing the game. A quick exit once you sit on the perceived objectives or a story? It's not for me to say. I serve the snack tray. You choose your treats.

Edited March 23, 2023 by WimO

[WimO]

EUREKA! I am jumping for joy. This morning I invented a solution for the Cease Fire humbug.

What is the Cease Fire humbug? A scenario designer creates a scenario that must be played to the full time limit of the scenario to experience the whole story.  The story being, all of the AI activity that is going on unseen by the player. However, the story gets interrupted by a player, satisfied with what he has accomplished in the scenario, aborting the story by giving the Command to Cease Fire. Game over. Player satisfied but story interrupted.

I have found a solution that will allow a scenario to play normally with normal results if the player plays it to the end but will result in a TOTAL DEFEAT if the player selects Ceasefire any time before the last minute in the scenario. Play tested and works perfectly. Ta - Daaaaa! Now I just need to do a little rework on all of my scenarios for the campaign.

Should I keep this a secret? (chuckle, chuckle, tee hee.) I feel like Asterix and the Secret Potion. Was that the time Getafix had amnesia?

Imagine the following situation: A player has captured all necessary occupy objectives to win the game, no enemies visible anymore, and there are five minutes left to play. He hits Cease FIre and the report comes up with TOTAL DEFEAT! I imagine the response would be a completely confounded "What the ...?"  And maybe a little hostility towards the game designer? I guess I had better include a warning with each scenario to avoid this possibility.

Edited March 23, 2023 by WimO

[drewshotsfan]

2 hours ago, WimO said:

HITTING CEASEFIRE:

In the present version, if you hit ceasefire in Boots on the Ground you can indeed win and circumvent the action at the end of the game. That is an issue that has been corrected in version 2 to be posted later. In most of the other scenarios, if you choose ceasefire too early, you will lose. I am glad to see this discussion. It makes me consider visually hiding all objectives from the player, i.e. no ALT-J and only providing verbal objective instructions - as in real life. Got to think some more about this.

In version 2 of Boots on the Ground, you will end the game in the range of minor loss, draw and  minor victory. Both in the present version and in version 2 the German AI has three plans which vary in aggression. There were timing problems in v1 with the AI not completing  its moves to combat that have been fixed in v2 resulting in a more aggressive and 'patrolling' AI.

To me, as a miniatures wargamer, hitting the Ceasefire button when things are going your way, is like quitting playing a game across the table before time is up. An unrelated example: A friend of mine and I are co-operatively playing the campaign For King and Country. We are half way through the final scenario and are sitting on a minor Allied victory. We could quit now and win the campaign but with an hour of game time left, we don't know if the AI has anymore attack plans or not. So we are going to play it out. Why miss the rest of the story?

Maybe I just need to add an introductory note: If you want to role play the full experience of these historical events, do not ever select the Cease Fire command. If you do, you will miss out on some of the excitement, suspense, and yes - occasional boredom.

In the final analysis, it's all about what YOU, the player want when you are playing the game. A quick exit once you sit on the perceived objectives or a story? It's not for me to say. I serve the snack tray. You choose your treats.

@WimO thanks for the explanation and insight into your aims for the campaign

 

I, too, love a story and much prefer to see things through to the end to allow the story to reach its conclusion. I write short stories for a hobby, and I'm planning on writing one for your campaign, driven by the game's actions and outcomes. To use a different analogy from yours, hitting the ceasefire button is like tearing the remaining pages out of a novel just because you got to a happy bit

I have read your "Eureka" solution post, and think it's a great fix

A note in the briefing is important, as you mentioned, because it would have made me carry on to the end of the two hour mission, instead of finishing early due to lack of designer guidance (that's by no means levelled as a criticism, by the way)

So, I've picked up mission one from the ed of the turn prior to hitting ceasefire, and less than five turns later things are happening. I love what you have put together

But, rats, you mentioned V2 is imminent. Does that mean I should cease play and start again when you upload V2?

Final thought....I love your idea of not disclosing the precise objective (Alt-J). The biggest bugbear of mine is the way that the current objectives work. They steer players towards acting in a "gamey" manner

Drew

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by drewshotsfan

[PEB14]

35 minutes ago, drewshotsfan said:

But, rats, you mentioned V2 is imminent. Does that mean I should cease play and start again when you upload V2?

Drew

Certainly  @WimO has his own opinion on the matter, but I would recommend that you don't go too far in the campaign and keep your enthusiasm and energy for testing the v2. I've just finished playtesting the second scenario (and plan to test the third one this weekend); there are minor adujstements to be made to the second scenario that you could benefit from.

[Jim Pyle]

Not sure this is the proper place to bring this up so redirect me if not.

Is there some reason campaign games can't be played H2H?  Seems like they'd be great fun.  Is it because a real player taking the AI side would do a much better job?

Jim

 

[Warts 'n' all]

2 hours ago, JP48 said:

Not sure this is the proper place to bring this up so redirect me if not.

Is there some reason campaign games can't be played H2H?  Seems like they'd be great fun.  Is it because a real player taking the AI side would do a much better job?

 

Not quite the right place as this thread is about a specific campaign that is in development. The short answer is "No" campaigns can't be played H2H. It is something that has been discussed many times over the years, but it doesn't appear to me that BFC have any plans to change the way campaigns work.

[PEB14]

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Not quite the right place as this thread is about a specific campaign that is in development. The short answer is "No" campaigns can't be played H2H. It is something that has been discussed many times over the years, but it doesn't appear to me that BFC have any plans to change the way campaigns work.

@LiveNoMore has developped a H2H mini-campaign. Not a campaign in the BFC sense, but a series of connected scenarios whose outcome determine what is the next scenario that should be played.

See here:

 

[Jim Pyle]

Thanks for the info on Rimini H2H Campaign.