BattlePack SPW lessons scenarios

[Vergeltungswaffe]

8 hours ago, PEB14 said:

Does it work for US halftracks as well?

This mod was specifically for 250's and 251's.

I did a quick search and here's the thread with multiple iterations as Harry worked his way through it.

Page 4

[PEB14]

23 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Yes, a problem with all titles.  In CMBS the Ukrainian 7 man squad can be split into 3 elements:  2 x 2 man teams and 1 x 3 man team.  This gives much more flexibility.  Cannot understand if BF is saying that it is unrealistic for NATO forces to split into three teams or...?  

My understanding of the issue was, that the PzGr squads were historically organized in 2 teams, and that BF followed the TOE. But I may be completely wrong.

In any case it would be historically sound to allow German squads to split in 3 teams: the WW2 German army was well known for the high level of initiative devoluted to its NCOs...

[Artkin]

Switching to conscripts helps with this issue... 

I believe the .mdr changes affect multiplayer as well, but not for both players so it could be a way of cheating. I suspect this is part of the reason why Bfc doesn't want to add mod support, and its clear to me why they wouldn't want to talk about this topic.

It doesn't bother me much because halftrack gunners need to be fixed. It's absolutely ridiculous

[Bulletpoint]

3 hours ago, PEB14 said:

My understanding of the issue was, that the PzGr squads were historically organized in 2 teams, and that BF followed the TOE. But I may be completely wrong.

No, you are completely correct.

Whether that means that German squads were unable to send out scouts without the rest of the squad having to bunch up I don't know.

I'm guessing they would still at least be able to spread out over what would be a couple of squares in-game.

[domfluff]

Panzergrenadier squads were in two teams, but these shouldn't be split with "Scout team" command by default (only sometimes, when useful) - default should be "Split teams", since each team gets an MG42, and the third is on the halftrack.

For example:

Edited March 14, 2023 by domfluff

[Twisk]

One of the annoying CM things where you can split teams but can't voluntell the replacement to look over a ridge.

[RockinHarry]

15 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

That's us, Harry, always moaning and never satisfied. You deserve better, my friend.

lol. Without giving names (we know who they are) there´s many who deserve better here. Good that I´ve never a boring moment in my life and can switch to way different (non CM) projects any minute seamlessly. Lack of time is the actual problem and we´re not getting younger. And we´ve exiting and turbulent times ATM

[RockinHarry]

14 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

This mod was specifically for 250's and 251's.

I did a quick search and here's the thread with multiple iterations as Harry worked his way through it.

Page 4

US HT (and lend lease SOV) were on my list as well.  Didn´t came to it unfortunately although doing it the same way like german HT would be fairly "easy" (though time consuming). Anybody with halfway good knowledge in Blender (I just can bits of tweak and rearrange CM stuff) can do it principally.  Needed info is to be found in Nigel/NPye´s Berlin thread IIRC.

[Chibot Mk IX]

On 3/13/2023 at 3:08 PM, Brille said:

Once I even destroyed a STUG III from the side with one bullet. Rare instance I know but it can happen. So they have their worth if you can deploy them right.

Edit: and the opponent has at least some thin skinned vehicles...

Hetzer…..

There is a user made scenario, a group of German stragglers supported by a Hetzer trying to breakthrough Soviets encirclement in a rainy Latvia day. Right after my Hetzer took down the Soviets T-70, an ATR round penetrated Hetzer’s side plate, kill the gunner and the commander, effectively mission kills it. 

[Chibot Mk IX]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:22 AM, Erwin said:

Yes, a problem with all titles.  In CMBS the Ukrainian 7 man squad can be split into 3 elements:  2 x 2 man teams and 1 x 3 man team.  This gives much more flexibility.  Cannot understand if BF is saying that it is unrealistic for NATO forces to split into three teams or...?  

Panzergrenadiers mount on the truck also need some love

they can be split into 3 teams  

 

 

 

[Chibot Mk IX]

Does anyone know how to make mounted PzG squad's LMG gunners standup and fire the LMGs when mounted on SPW?   

I used open up , then click the PzG squad, target area. it's always the K98 and G43 riflemen stand up and fire

 

Thx

 

[Erwin]

1 hour ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

Panzergrenadiers mount on the truck also need some love

they can be split into 3 teams  

IIRC only squads with 10-11+ members can be split into 3 teams.  Nearly all the NATO squads one sees in CM cannot be split into 3 teams.  Which is what makes the Ukrainian 7-man squads squads so interesting and versatile.  I only wish someone would explain the rationale behind not allowing NATO and other 7-9 man squads to split into 3 teams.

[JM Stuff]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:06 PM, domfluff said:

Panzergrenadier squads were in two teams, but these shouldn't be split with "Scout team" command by default (only sometimes, when useful) - default should be "Split teams", since each team gets an MG42, and the third is on the halftrack.

For example:

Nice wil be that we can created a layer with arows signs and texte, or more, directly on the map and apply the tactic, that we choose, all on a top view... this wil avoid to use others tools, this will be more easy and directly available just with a scroll of the mouse button !

Edited March 15, 2023 by JM Stuff

[domfluff]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

IIRC only squads with 10-11+ members can be split into 3 teams.  Nearly all the NATO squads one sees in CM cannot be split into 3 teams.  Which is what makes the Ukrainian 7-man squads squads so interesting and versatile.  I only wish someone would explain the rationale behind not allowing NATO and other 7-9 man squads to split into 3 teams.

Doctrine. You'll note that the Panzergrenadier squad usually splits into two, each team with an MG42. The truck mounted ones split into three, because the panzershreck (or rifle grenade) teams are pushed down to the squad level (rather than being a separate team), so the "split teams" allows you to have two MG-centred teams and one AT team.

[Erwin]

It would still be useful to be able to split off a 2-man scout and not end up with an unsplittable 7-man team which is "unwieldy".

[RockinHarry]

9 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

Does anyone know how to make mounted PzG squad's LMG gunners standup and fire the LMGs when mounted on SPW?   

I used open up , then click the PzG squad, target area. it's always the K98 and G43 riflemen stand up and fire

 

Thx

 

No go. BFC apparently just allows the gunner station to be used fo LMGunning.

6 hours ago, domfluff said:

Doctrine. You'll note that the Panzergrenadier squad usually splits into two, each team with an MG42. The truck mounted ones split into three, because the panzershreck (or rifle grenade) teams are pushed down to the squad level (rather than being a separate team), so the "split teams" allows you to have two MG-centred teams and one AT team.

In RL the system was much more flexible, not just for Panzergrenadiers. The squad leader employs and divides his squad as he sees fit for a task or situation. That could be both lmg guys in a support group and the rifle guys in a maneuvre or assault group. The squad leader can also decide to just have a sniper employed and keep everybody else under cover. Also squad leader position is flexible. He´s in most important element during an engagement, i.e leading the lmg guy, assigning him targets while using his binocs. Also could be he lends the binocs to one guy in the squad for observing with everybody else beeing kept in cover. So compare that with BFC system and you see serious limits concerning "realism" in the game. Not that it would be easy implementing all that, particularly for AIP use, but all infantry combat is just a very rough approximation of the real things.

Edited March 16, 2023 by RockinHarry

[chuckdyke]

The systems animations show flexibility too. Just replay a two-men scout team next time you use them. They split and move depending on the travel mode. 

[domfluff]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

 

In RL the system was much more flexible, not just for Panzergrenadiers. The squad leader employs and divides his squad as he sees fit for a task or situation. That could be both lmg guys in a support group and the rifle guys in a maneuvre or assault group. The squad leader can also decide to just have a sniper employed and keep everybody else under cover. Also squad leader position is flexible. He´s in most important element during an engagement, i.e leading the lmg guy, assigning him targets while using his binocs. Also could be he lends the binocs to one guy in the squad for observing with everybody else beeing kept in cover. So compare that with BFC system and you see serious limits concerning "realism" in the game. Not that it would be easy implementing all that, particularly for AIP use, but all infantry combat is just a very rough approximation of the real things.

Oh, quite, but the player role in CM isn't a squad leader - control is usually two layers down, so the CM player is representing a Platoon leader in the lowest bound.

This is naturally also the reason why there isn't more explicit control over other small-scale decisions, like ammo choice, and why building interiors are abstracted - it's just not a game which offers that level of fidelity. If it was, then controlling a battalion and perhaps even a company would be extremely tedious.

[PEB14]

23 minutes ago, domfluff said:

Oh, quite, but the player role in CM isn't a squad leader - control is usually two layers down, so the CM player is representing a Platoon leader in the lowest bound.

This is naturally also the reason why there isn't more explicit control over other small-scale decisions, like ammo choice, and why building interiors are abstracted - it's just not a game which offers that level of fidelity. If it was, then controlling a battalion and perhaps even a company would be extremely tedious.

Well you're right, but that doesn't forbid some splitting flexibility at the squad level, which is anyway a basic option offered by the game!

Whatever doctrine is, I find surprising this limitation imposed on the German PzGr flexibility, whereas flexibility was certainly one of the most significant advantage of the German WW2 infantry arm in general (and armoured infantry in particular), thanks to the high level of initiative devoted to the NCOs. The German infrantry arm shall be the most flexible in a realistic game engine!

Realism is exactly the reason why BF does not allow squad splitting for Italian, and puts limitation on squad splitting for Soviets !

 

[chuckdyke]

Splitting HQs should be able to split a medic. Squads should be able to split a runner, runner could simulate running out a field telephone line. On Company level especially for Soviets. The list goes on and on just try to code it all 

Edited March 16, 2023 by chuckdyke

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, domfluff said:

Oh, quite, but the player role in CM isn't a squad leader - control is usually two layers down, so the CM player is representing a Platoon leader in the lowest bound.

This is naturally also the reason why there isn't more explicit control over other small-scale decisions, like ammo choice, and why building interiors are abstracted - it's just not a game which offers that level of fidelity. If it was, then controlling a battalion and perhaps even a company would be extremely tedious.

Sure, but we mostly almost all play it at this level and splitting/squad composition is the running topic. But it´s understandable that BFC won´t change or improve anything due to the reason you just mentioned. Maybe in Pro version that we unworthy ones never get to see. Or next game version in say... 10 to 20 years. Current CM base engine ain´t that innovative anymore like it was 15 years ago.

[Chibot Mk IX]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:41 AM, RockinHarry said:

No go. BFC apparently just allows the gunner station to be used fo LMGunning.

 

Sad......

 

on the bright side, ATR can be fired when mounted on the SPW.  Now I have a brilliant idea, I can 5 x ATR team on the SPW and turn my SPW into a fearsome large caliber Anti tank weapon station 

The question is, where I can capture the Soviets that willing to fight on a German SPW?

 

 

 

[Brille]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:30 AM, Chibot Mk IX said:

Sad......

 

on the bright side, ATR can be fired when mounted on the SPW.  Now I have a brilliant idea, I can 5 x ATR team on the SPW and turn my SPW into a fearsome large caliber Anti tank weapon station 

The question is, where I can capture the Soviets that willing to fight on a German SPW?

 

 

 

Hahaha good find !

Putting multiple of these in it makes it formidable (light) tank hunter I guess. :D

Should be working for the lend&lease american halftracks too...so there you have it.

 

But maybe BFC did it on purpose to not be able to fire multiple mg from the halftracks. Just imagine putting multiple little mg teams in there... They would be very vulnerable yeah but the density of fire they could produce...

 

It would be cool though if riding infantry, that happens to have an mg34 or mg42, would mount it at least on the aa mount at the back. And when they are leaving they take it off again.

[Vacillator]

Sorry if I've missed the answer, but I've been asked if AT rifles ever fire at enemy infantry.  I don't think I've seen it, but the AT rifle teams do of course use other weapons against infantry.  So do they only use the AT rifles against vehicles and AT guns or have I just not caught them firing at 'soft' targets?

[Chibot Mk IX]

AT rifle fires at infantry target. I can confirm that. There is even a pic under the screenshot topic to prove that.