Preview: First FanMade BattlePack for CM Red Thunder

[Artkin]

The Pripyat marshes were big for Soviet planners. In response to the growing German threat: in 1938 and on the Soviets began a massive rolling mobilization which increased from 1.5 million personel into 4.5 million by February 1940. In 1938 chief of the general staff Shapashnikov devised two plans of defense hinged on the Pripyat marshes. Each plan focused either North or South of the marshes. 

In July 1940 the deputy chief of the General Staff Operations Directorate Vasilevsky revised the plan which placed the largest emphasis on defending the Minsk-Smolensk axis. He nailed it. Meretskov (Commander of the Finnish War front, replaced by Timoshenko and demoted to 7th Army commander, then back to chief of staff) became chief of staff of the Stavka the same year, and with Stalin's supervision a new defensive plan was drawn up in October 1940. The new plan shifted the emphasis South of the Pripyat marshes to defend Ukraine. Stalin was worried about defending his food supplies. A January 1941 wargame was executed in order to test the new October 1940 plan. It resulted in failure for the Soviets. They overestimated their defense and underestimated the Germans (Soviet wargame, no Germans yet). A new wargame was held in Moscow two weeks after war broke out, which Stalin used as an excuse to fire Meretskov and replace him with the successful "blue" commander Zhukov (Stalin surprised the officers who participated in the wargame with a debrief and was unsatisifed, but was probably already looking for a reason to fire Meretskov). The Stavka thought they could hold the front for two weeks while some of their forces were wargaming.

I just read this yesterday so I couldn't resist adding some lore to the marshes.

-When Titans Clashed Revised Edition

Edited May 17, 2023 by Artkin

[Artkin]

Ah oops. Zhukov became chief in February 41. It appears there is some conflicting information in this book.  

[Aragorn2002]

8 hours ago, Mr.X said:

By the way, during the making of this BattlePack, it was like a history- and geography lesson for me. 
Although I was aware of, that the typical wide landscape of the East is mainly found in the Southern (and Ukrainian) Region, I was still surprised about the sheer density of wooded and swampy areas in the Central Region. Almost no place for huge tank operations, only a limited number of roads and always some kind of a  claustrophobic feeling. Now, I can comprehend, why German Headquarters simply lost the contact with whole Army-Corps. 

It also partly explains why a pre-Bagration retreat behind the Beresina wasn't approved by OKH.. It would have been a very difficult operation, especially because most supply depots were near the frontline and it would have taken months to evacuate them. Wrong decision of course, but no doubt a useful argument for the big man in Berlin not to allow Hrs.Gr.Mitte to do a operation Buffel. One of his biggest blunders in my opinion.

[Mr.X]

Ultimately, every civil or military fail on Soviets Side lead to paragraph 58, thus to the simple choice between beiing sentenced to death or 25 years in Siberia. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mr.X

[Mr.X]

Most of the failing German high ranked officers however became pensioners. At least until 20th of July. Then comfort changed for some. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mr.X

[pintere]

On 5/15/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mr.X said:

Short update:

While I am starting with playtesting for 2 of the 4 campaigns (the biggest one runs already at this stage) - I have now an overview of all the different divisional and Army-Units, the players will command (parts of) through these 5 campaigns. 
And I couldn‘t resist to list them here : 

12th ID 

24th (mot) ID 

31st ID 

45th ID 

95th ID 

134th ID 

178th (Storm) ID

252nd ID 

286th Security Division

383rd ID 

PGD „Feldherrnhalle“ 

12th PD 

20th PD

3rd SS-PD 

SS-KG von Gottberg 

I. Flakabteilung(AA-Battalion)/ Kommandostab RF-SS

schw.(Heavy) TD-Battallion 665

schw.(Heavy) Heeres-TD-Battalion 519

Assault Gun Brigade 244

Assault Gun Brigade 245

Assault Gun Brigade 909

 

Regards 

Mr.X 

 

 

 

Looks like you put a lot of genuine effort into making these campaigns as interesting and historically accurate as possible. Am excited to see how they turn out!

[Mr.X]

At the end there will always be a conflict between historical accuracy and playability in CM due to the compressed character of the fightings. 
Real fighting at company or batallion level would be an extremely boring thing in a game because of the often endless hours they lasted. 
The same with reports of (for example) huge numbers of destroyed enemy tanks - in most cases such situations were the result of catastrophic decisions by headquarters or bad misjudgment of leading officers on site - many CM Players would not assess such situations as enyoyable playing.

So, if in doubt, I will always try to prefer playability instead of pure reality.

So, what players can expect, is historical correct units, historical correct locations/dates/circumstances and as historical as possible built maps (depending on military maps, areal photos and old pictures). 80% of the officers names and ranks will be correct, too - for some officers I have made short portraits to improve the atmosphere. 
Fighting itself will be harsh, sometimes with limited options, often with much more tactical options than one will expect with first glance. 
 

Regards

Mr.X 

[Aragorn2002]

6 hours ago, Mr.X said:

At the end there will always be a conflict between historical accuracy and playability in CM due to the compressed character of the fightings. 
Real fighting at company or batallion level would be an extremely boring thing in a game because of the often endless hours they lasted. 
The same with reports of (for example) huge numbers of destroyed enemy tanks - in most cases such situations were the result of catastrophic decisions by headquarters or bad misjudgment of leading officers on site - many CM Players would not assess such situations as enyoyable playing.

So, if in doubt, I will always try to prefer playability instead of pure reality.

So, what players can expect, is historical correct units, historical correct locations/dates/circumstances and as historical as possible built maps (depending on military maps, areal photos and old pictures). 80% of the officers names and ranks will be correct, too - for some officers I have made short portraits to improve the atmosphere. 
Fighting itself will be harsh, sometimes with limited options, often with much more tactical options than one will expect with first glance. 
 

Regards

Mr.X 

REALLY looking forward to this.

[Mr.X]

Some new impressions from WIP:

[Mr.X]

[Aragorn2002]

Great atmosphere. I'm recently reading Hinze,  Niepold and others again, to get more insight in what really happened during the German collapse. I think the German infantry divisions did all they could, but the odds were simply too much against them. Only a timely retreat to the Beresina and beyond, resulting in more German reserves, could have improved the situation a little, but even then the situation was pretty hopeless. A couple of Panzer divisions also could have prevented the catastrophic loss of men, but not the collapse itself.

Your maps are very good and I love your eye for detail. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Aragorn2002

[PEB14]

@Mr.X

In your campaign, how do you manage to emulate understrength units (comapnies and platoons)? I find that the headcount parameter does not work for core units…

[Mr.X]

@Aragorn2002:

Perfect preparation for the BattlePack
 

 

[Mr.X]

@PEB14:

Interesting fact. To be honest, I never touched this problem

I don‘t like the core unit system so much, because of the difficulty to calculate the development of a battle, especially if there are too many missions behind each other. 
 

With the opening of Bagration, the German Units had to hold overstretched frontline sections with few or none reserves, but the personal strengh of most infantry divisions was on 100%. 
In „Summer of Destruction“ the player will initially command full strenghed units in some cases, but I have choosen another way of structure for most of the actions. 
 

Regards

Mr.X 

[PEB14]

4 hours ago, Mr.X said:

I don‘t like the core unit system so much, because of the difficulty to calculate the development of a battle, especially if there are too many missions behind each other.

Well, it's a little bit surprising: the core system is the basis of the CM campaigns and its economy of forces (headcount, fitness, supply)…

 

4 hours ago, Mr.X said:

With the opening of Bagration, the German Units had to hold overstretched frontline sections with few or none reserves, but the personal strengh of most infantry divisions was on 100%. 

That's interesting: I was under the impression that the German units were ALWAYS understrength from 1943 onwards. I'm not familiar with the Eastern Front while you are, but this is certainly true on the Western front.

 

4 hours ago, Mr.X said:

In „Summer of Destruction“ the player will initially command full strenghed units in some cases, but I have choosen another way of structure for most of the actions.

You're stimulating my curiosity…

[Mr.X]

Indeed, during the research, all the German Infantry Divisions of Army Group Centre, I studied had almost 100% personal strengh in June 1944 - according to the structure for ID 1944. 

Nonetheless there were huge problems.

As an example:

252.ID had 3 strong + 4 average Grenadier-Batallions in June 1944. Additionally a Pio-Batallion and a Training-Batallion. 
Division had to hold a frontline of approximately 35 km length (!) - so, one single batallion was responsible for a sector of 4-5 km length (!)

The divisional Artillery Regiment had in total 44 guns. There was a huge lack of ammunition supply, so only 3-5 shots per day for every gun were allowed. 
 

Division had in total 21 AT-Guns, only few were SPGs. 
 

Eqipement of Infantry was often poor - so, the common MG was still the MG-34 for example. Additionally there was a serious lack of infantry AT-weapons like Panzerschreck and Panzerfausts. 
 

Except for few weak platoons there were no reserves behind the frontlines. 
 

And, not least - the few supply routes suffered under continous partisan activities. 
 

 

 

 

 

[PEB14]

55 minutes ago, Mr.X said:

As an example:

252.ID had 3 strong + 4 average Grenadier-Batallions in June 1944. Additionally a Pio-Batallion and a Training-Batallion.

What do you mean by "strong" and "average"? In terms of training?

By the way, 7 battalions makes a strange number for a division! IIRC TOE calls for 6 battalions.

 

57 minutes ago, Mr.X said:

Division had to hold a frontline of approximately 35 km length (!) - so, one single batallion was responsible for a sector of 4-5 km length (!)

That will make interesting scenarios!

[Artkin]

1 minute ago, PEB14 said:

What do you mean by "strong" and "average"? In terms of training?

By the way, 7 battalions makes a strange number for a division! IIRC TOE calls for 6 battalions.

 

That will make interesting scenarios!

That's how the Germans rated their unit strengths, don't ask how they kept track of their panzer counts..

7 divisions probably refers to 6 infantry and 1 recon battalion. They had a strange way of doing things.

[PEB14]

27 minutes ago, Artkin said:

That's how the Germans rated their unit strengths, don't ask how they kept track of their panzer counts..

7 divisions probably refers to 6 infantry and 1 recon battalion. They had a strange way of doing things.

You're correct, they might be a Füsilier-Battalion as well. Which makes 7.

[Mr.X]

As Artkin said: Germans used the number of personal for classification. There were "weak" batallions with low number of personal or average batallions or strong batallions with full personal strengh. I think, quality of personal did not play a role for this classification.

252.ID in June 1944 consisted of 3 Grenadier-Regiments, each with 2 batallions. Additionally there was a Fuessilier-Batallion - so you get 7 in total. 

 

[Mr.X]

8 hours ago, PEB14 said:

You're stimulating my curiosity…

During the 16 (or 17) missions of "Tiger Trail", the player will command parts of the 9th (heavy) Company of the Division's Tank-Regiment, which are attached to several divisional units. So, no classic core-units.

The "Five Bridges" Campaign is divided into three chapters. Player will represent an officer of 383.ID, ordered with different tasks. First, the player will command a full strenghed Fuessilier-Batallion during the fightings in the pocket east of the Beresina, trying to escape to the (almost encircled) city of Bobruisk. Second, the player will command parts of the ad hoc forces, leading the breakout of the Bobruisk Pocket west of the Beresina. Third, the player will command completely mixed and shattered units on their desperate way to the positions of the German Rescue Forces. 

The "Into Hell" Campaign will see (as said above) initially full strenghed core forces.

During the two other (Mini)Campaigns, the player will command a mix of very different units without the necessarity of core units. 

Thats it 

 

Regards

Mr.X

[PEB14]

10 hours ago, Mr.X said:

252.ID in June 1944 consisted of 3 Grenadier-Regiments, each with 2 batallions. Additionally there was a Fuessilier-Batallion - so you get 7 in total.

Tracking WW2 German organization is a full time job !

In June 1944 also, on the Western Front, the 91. Infanterie Division (Luftlande) consisted of 2 Grenadier-Regiments, each with 3 batallions. Additionally there was a Füsilier... company! So here you get only 6 battalions in total, plus miscellaneous company sized, divisional units.

As this is far too simple, the division also had a Pionier-Battalion, but it was only 2-companies strong!

[Mr.X]

Ask the guys who are searching for the corpses of WWII fallen soldiers

They go crazy because of the German Dog tags. In order to increase the confusion, you will only find the number of the former training-unit, these soldiers had belonged to, before sent to the front-unit. 

[Aragorn2002]

On 5/17/2023 at 4:45 AM, Artkin said:

I believe it's Hammer's Flank. Not 100% sure

Found it. Beautiful maps. But only playable from the Bolshie side, I see.

[Mr.X]

Short update about WIP:

While creating AI plans for further 24 single missions, it is the first time I am able to estimate the probable date of release for this BattlePack: it will be at the end of September 

5 Campaigns with 40 single missions on 33 different maps. 

Special thanks goes to @Phantom Captain who is fighting his way through the Beta-Version of TigerTrail 

 

Regards

Mr.X