LOS

[kb6583]

As I'm new to CM Engine #4, I've been trying to relearn the hot key functions. I don't seem to see a hot key for checking LOS. When I place a unit in setup how do I check its LOS?

[Howler]

Use a Target or Target Light command (default: T/Y) at various waypoints.

[womble]

Be aware, though that using the target tool from plotted waypoints, or before enemy units are actually visible can give (slightly) misleading indications, as the target tool won't know what posture your men are in when they actually reach that point, nor the height of the enemy unit they could, potentially be drawing LOS to, so there are some assumptions made. It is generally a useful indicator, though.

I think there may be some factors that aren't taken into account during the setup phase too: time of day and atmospheric obscuration are, I think, not considered at that time.

[Vacillator]

I think we may be saying that there ain't such a tool in Engine 4.  Was there one in Engine 3?  I've only ever played Engine 3 demos and at the time had no clue what I was doing .

[Erwin]

As Womble said, if you attempt to find LOS from a unit or waypoint to an "unoccupied" piece of ground one may not get LOS.  However if a unit is at that exact same location you may have LOS to that unit as the unit is higher than the ground (obviously).

So...  to check if one can achieve LOS to a piece of ground if an enemy unit is there, one can place a waypoint for one of your units at the desired spot and then see if you can get LOS from that waypoint back to your unit.  Eg:  If one wants to see if your tank will have LOS to an area when an enemy tank crosses that area, one can place a waypoint at one or more desired locations and then with any of those waypoints selected, one can "reverse LOS" back to where one's tank is sitting to see if something higher than the terrain will be spotted.

Sounds more complex than it is. After a few years' experience it becomes 2nd nature. 

 

[womble]

1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

I think we may be saying that there ain't such a tool in Engine 4.  Was there one in Engine 3?  I've only ever played Engine 3 demos and at the time had no clue what I was doing .

No, there's no separate "LOS Tool" in CMx2, not in any engine variant. You just have to "try and target something" with the Target tool (Light or normal - I tend to use Light in case I forget to cancel it; saves wasting too much ammo... ). The good thing is that you can use the Target tool from any waypoint you've plotted. It uses the characteristics of the unit that the waypoint is for and assesses LOS based on "Ground level" at the centre of the Action Spot you're hovering over, or have clicked on. So if your pTruppen are currently prone, they'll have a worse FoV than if they're upright. And if they're in a tank, their eyes may be higher yet.

[Vacillator]

6 minutes ago, womble said:

No, there's no separate "LOS Tool" in CMx2, not in any engine variant.

Hmmm, thought I read that there was once, perhaps in CMx1 then. 

Anyway reading what I wrote again, I have of course played Engine 4 for more hours than I can imagine (no Steam counter to keep track though ).

[chuckdyke]

After years of trying all the fancy tricks in the book LOS is best done by eyeballing from camera position1. If you get a LOS the game gives you either a full contact or a tentative contact. Here two scouting teams are moving to contact. First eyeballed the terrain. Two sections of the same platoon are tasked to make contact with the enemy.

Receiving fire but as they are moving, they don't get an LOS. They move to contact towards a suspected enemy position. 

Use a fit but not a brave unit for this task. Fear is their friend to survive. They are suppressed easily and they don't care about their LOS.

During this turn the other team was resting and spotted the enemy position. The engine gives you automatically an LOS. Low quality units have their uses. The German pillbox is on borrowed time. 

[Simcoe]

3 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

After years of trying all the fancy tricks in the book LOS is best done by eyeballing from camera position1. If you get a LOS the game gives you either a full contact or a tentative contact. Here two scouting teams are moving to contact. First eyeballed the terrain. Two sections of the same platoon are tasked to make contact with the enemy.

Receiving fire but as they are moving, they don't get an LOS. They move to contact towards a suspected enemy position. 

Use a fit but not a brave unit for this task. Fear is their friend to survive. They are suppressed easily and they don't care about their LOS.

During this turn the other team was resting and spotted the enemy position. The engine gives you automatically an LOS. Low quality units have their uses. The German pillbox is on borrowed time. 

Beat me to it. Especially with  tanks. If you place the camera in the lowest or second lowest position you will get a pretty good idea of what the unit will see. For infantry it's much harder.

[chuckdyke]

8 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

For infantry it's much harder.

F-Key all the way down then the X-Key for a nice POV. Something for Engine 5 a POV Key. It makes me cringe on YouTube playing the game only from camera 4. Using the camera well is one of the keys playing the game well. 

[chuckdyke]

15 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

Especially with  tanks. If you place the camera in the lowest or second lowest position

Try to use the mouse wheel. Camera 1 drivers' position, one notch up fighting compartment, two notches up unbuttoned. 

[Simcoe]

20 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

F-Key all the way down then the X-Key for a nice POV. Something for Engine 5 a POV Key. It makes me cringe on YouTube playing the game only from camera 4. Using the camera well is one of the keys playing the game well. 

Agree on that one. Really sucks that we can't see POV from a prone unit.