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Climable Mountains - How To and Humbugs.


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Posted (edited)
Just now, Vacillator said:

Sorry, you had me at this point 😆.

Me too 😆 ...or, well...hmm. That's also a political sentiment these days 😜😆

Edited by RMM
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, RMM said:

That certainly makes sense, and I'm finding out my history is pretty incomplete on this, since I thought the 82nd were able to continue to hold that end of it after the attack with Renault tanks. In terms of the scenario VP, I'm not sure if Cauquigny is an immediate total win or not though.

Yeah, don't know. I had just recently downloaded this set and done nothing more than open the scenario as US to see what the map looked like.  

Here's a pretty good account with a lot of detail.

https://www.forces.net/d-day/la-fiere-bridge-d-day-battle-you-should-have-heard

Dave

PS - I didn't realize there was an Iron Mike statue at La Fire. The one at Fort Bragg is famous, in the center of the post.

https://www.army.mil/article/96925/fort_braggs_iron_mike_statue

Band of Brothers fans will recognize the name of LTG (then LTC) Robert Sink in the first paragraph

 

Edited by Ultradave
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1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

Wim, in the 'Good Drop' version I assume this is obvious to both sides? 

In the 'Boots on the ground' version, playing as the German AI (against instruction) this is of course not immediately obvious to the hapless German 'AI' player, except arguably for those in the 'historical know'.  Undertaking this role, I had assumed that an active defense was the way to go, but capturing Cauquigny would require an active offense.  My gentlemanly opponent Dave has also just informed me that he has another VP location that I know nothing about.  Does that mean whatever I achieve is hobbled by the strategic victory you describe, plus other unknown VPs?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining as it was clearly described as US vs AI only, just wondering whether to keep going as German...

 

I'm personally not a big fan, but the in-law side of the family seem to enjoy Julie spreading her arms.

Hi Vacillator:

In some of my scenarios the victory conditions are asymmetrical, that is to say, that the two sides have different conditions. This sometimes goes as deep as casualties. Boots on the Ground was designed as a single player U.S. vs A.I., not H2H scenario, so anyone playing it as Axis H2H will have no info and no sense of what to do. The A.I. programming will be more clever.

Regarding 'Good Drop', since it is designed for H2H play, I believe that both side's instructions are clear. However, I would suggest that you ask the opinion of my oponent RMM (see above). He is the first and only person I know that has tried it.  As I am the desinger, my views are biased but RMM can give you a player's impression.

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1 hour ago, RMM said:

Wasn't really aware of that, I must admit, or is that just an historical note? The scenario's VP only makes mention of the VP values for the Amfreville and Cauquigny VP areas. Would have sent more stuff onwards to Cauquigny if this is true in the scenario!

RMM - I'm speaking 'historically', not scenario wise. To win the scenario, just play to the location victory points and be careful of casualties.  What I meant to imply earlier, that, historically , regardless of casualties, if the Americans could hold Cauquigny they would be linked up with their brothers across the causeway (the 505th) and it would be a strategic victory. In the scenario it was necessary to also make Amfreville a victory location because that was the planned assembly area of the 507th PIR, and the intended location for battatlion HQ. If you play to the scenario's location VPs (Amfreville 100 and Cauquigny 500) then you will automatically be following the historical priorities for the U.S. player. This scenario's VPs are 'symmetrical', meaning that mine are the same as yours.

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10 minutes ago, WimO said:

RMM - I'm speaking 'historically', not scenario wise. To win the scenario, just play to the location victory points and be careful of casualties.  What I meant to imply earlier, that, historically , regardless of casualties, if the Americans could hold Cauquigny they would be linked up with their brothers across the causeway (the 505th) and it would be a strategic victory. In the scenario it was necessary to also make Amfreville a victory location because that was the planned assembly area of the 507th PIR, and the intended location for battatlion HQ. If you play to the scenario's location VPs (Amfreville 100 and Cauquigny 500) then you will automatically be following the historical priorities for the U.S. player. This scenario's VPs are 'symmetrical', meaning that mine are the same as yours.

Ah ok. I figured as much, but wasn't sure from the earlier writing. Tks. We're close to the end, and I have some time this evening if you do :)

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46 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

In the real invasion, that causeway was a major exit point from the beach areas into the interior countryside, so holding the interior end of the causeway was a key objective. In real life they weren't able to and were forced away, which resulted in having to later force the causeway, which is a pretty famous action in the history of the 82d. Regardless of game VP costs, the end of that causeway was pretty important. 

For Amfreville (sp?) I'm assuming but don't know for sure that it's the first village/town with road intersections that would allow easier dispersal of forces into the interior (kind of guessing on this one but looking at the game map it makes sense).

Dave

Dave: Quite correct. Besides the importance of Amfreville that I noted earlier, it was the road hub that would allow the follow-up U.S. 90th Inf. Div. to cut the Cotentin Peninsula and isolate Cherbourg.  The 82nd was tasked with capturing a number of inland causeways and bridges 'on D-Day'.  It failed in every case. It succeeded only in capturing and holding the eastern end of la Fiere causeway. Their failure was in no way due to incompetence on their part but rather because Col. Millet's 507th, Lt. Col. Timmes' and Lt. Col. Shanley's paras were all HORRIBLY scattered. All three fought predominantly defensive survival actions against unfavourable odds. Only the 505th had a near perfect drop which allowed them to secure the eastern end of the la Fiere causeway by 10 am D-Day.  Timmes initially managed to assemble only two sticks with which he invested Cauquigny which he found unoccupied. He left a handful of men there and moved on toward Amfreville. Just before noon Cpt. Schwartzwalder's company (of the 507th) joined the Cauquiny garrison but promptly skedaddled when the Germans counter-attacked. He hared off to join Timmes who had bounced off Amferville and dug into an orchard. The Germans effectively walked back into Cauquigny.

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27 minutes ago, RMM said:

Ah ok. I figured as much, but wasn't sure from the earlier writing. Tks. We're close to the end, and I have some time this evening if you do :)

I'm good this evening.

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3 minutes ago, WimO said:

Their failure was in no way due to incompetence on their part but rather because Col. Millet's 507th, Lt. Col. Timmes' and Lt. Col. Shanley's paras were all HORRIBLY scattered.

Yes. They were all over Cotentin trying to figure out where they were !

Dave

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Yes, I assigned a slope to every tile. However this is not necessary. There are two other ways to do it. If the slope is constant you can either (i) assign the same elevation value to the two end points of a straight row or file, or (ii) assign the same elevation value to every tile in every second row or every second file.

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18 hours ago, WimO said:

If you play to the scenario's location VPs (Amfreville 100 and Cauquigny 500) then you will automatically be following the historical priorities for the U.S. player. This scenario's VPs are 'symmetrical', meaning that mine are the same as yours.

Sorry for another question Wim, and I may have missed the answer already.  The above was about Good Drop, but does it also apply to Boots on the Ground? 

Dave and I are just pondering whether to jump ship to one of the H2H scenarios (perhaps Timmes Digs In or Angriff der Grenadiere) or keep going with Boots on the Ground.  I would have to make a major revision to my German orders, and he may be better prepared to give me a warm reception at Cauquigny than he otherwise would have been - however he has already stopped short of Amfreville so I have that in my favour.

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47 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Sorry for another question Wim, and I may have missed the answer already.  The above was about Good Drop, but does it also apply to Boots on the Ground? 

Dave and I are just pondering whether to jump ship to one of the H2H scenarios (perhaps Timmes Digs In or Angriff der Grenadiere) or keep going with Boots on the Ground.  I would have to make a major revision to my German orders, and he may be better prepared to give me a warm reception at Cauquigny than he otherwise would have been - however he has already stopped short of Amfreville so I have that in my favour.

In Boots on the Ground the Allied player receives 300 pts for occupying Cauquigny church, and 100 pts each if he can touch two locations in Amfreville. In addition he receives 100 pts if he can inflict 10% casualties on the German player. The German A.I. receives no victory points. It can only deprive the Allied player of theirs. In addition the SP scenario is set up in such a way that there are 9 triggers and one exit area for the Germans, all of which are secret. Playing the sceanario H2H will break it.

A number of my scenarios are H2H capable. I have personally played all three versions of Timmes' Orchard with a local gamer. Balance varies, so I found it good to play all three as an historical study. I am going to post a summary of my scenarios in a few minutes.

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This thread started on the topic of climbable mountains.

Anyone who wishes to learn more about "some of the actions" of the 82nd Airborne from D-Day through D+4 might have a peek at my new post.

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1 hour ago, WimO said:

might have a peek at my new post

Not seeing this yet Wim, guess it's on its way...

Thanks for the answer above by the way, exactly what I was looking for.

And in the middle of all of this I've been looking at the Panzer Lehr scenario you did.  Looks good...

 

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5 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Not seeing this yet Wim, guess it's on its way...

Thanks for the answer above by the way, exactly what I was looking for.

And in the middle of all of this I've been looking at the Panzer Lehr scenario you did.  Looks good...

 

Posted under "CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips" Section.

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Some advice to both players if playing my Panzer Lehr scenario.

German player has the more difficult task by far. Special rules are in effect to limit the movement of the German player. Pitch dark, vehicles move at Slow speed except under scenario defined situations. The German player's biggest challenge is traffic management. Patience is required to feed the long columns of vehicles in slowly and well spaced or you will produce an unmanageable mess. The German player has TRF's and is encouraged to use these for a preliminary bombardment on the assumed American positions. The Germans had a well defined artillery plan and had a habit of constantly intermittently bombarding road junctions. If the bombardment is delayed the German won't see much because it is pitch dark and hazy.  Expect ambushes and surprises constantly.

American player: Is low on supply and recovering from  the day's failed attack against Les Haut Vents. Supply trucks are on the way and these need to be 'managed' when they arrive or ammo might become a problem. Do not be quickly discouraged by adverse results. The German player's task is a difficult one and he is fairly easy to ambush.

Scenario length is sufficient for a slow and steady pace.

Three play tests by myself with others all resulted in different outcomes with the Germans either getting onto the crossroads or failing just short of the crossroads.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, WimO said:

Some advice to both players if playing my Panzer Lehr scenario.

German player has the more difficult task by far. Special rules are in effect to limit the movement of the German player. Pitch dark, vehicles move at Slow speed except under scenario defined situations. The German player's biggest challenge is traffic management. Patience is required to feed the long columns of vehicles in slowly and well spaced or you will produce an unmanageable mess. The German player has TRF's and is encouraged to use these for a preliminary bombardment on the assumed American positions. The Germans had a well defined artillery plan and had a habit of constantly intermittently bombarding road junctions. If the bombardment is delayed the German won't see much because it is pitch dark and hazy.  Expect ambushes and surprises constantly.

American player: Is low on supply and recovering from  the day's failed attack against Les Haut Vents. Supply trucks are on the way and these need to be 'managed' when they arrive or ammo might become a problem. Do not be quickly discouraged by adverse results. The German player's task is a difficult one and he is fairly easy to ambush.

Scenario length is sufficient for a slow and steady pace.

Three play tests by myself with others all resulted in different outcomes with the Germans either getting onto the crossroads or failing just short of the crossroads.

 

 

Sorry, but where's the link for this? Went looking in that CM2 forum you referenced but couldn't find it.

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56 minutes ago, RMM said:

Sorry, but where's the link for this? Went looking in that CM2 forum you referenced but couldn't find it.

At this forum goto :

Home>CM2>Combat Mission - General Discussion> CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

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1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

If you mean the Lehr scenario Michael, there's a version here:

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/cm-battles-for-normandy/hauts-vents/

However I have a version with a different filename, not sure where I got it...

I created multiple versions of the battles around Haut Vents. The one you have linked to here is a DASL conversion. I produced a much larger historically accurate scenario of Panzer Lehr's attack called "Gruppe Bohm to le Rocher". Besides that there is the  4 km x 4 km master map "Hauts Vents and Pont Hebert". the Gruppe Bohm scenario uses half of that map. I also created new building skins for that scenario which are still at the Green as Jade's web site.

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28 minutes ago, WimO said:

I created multiple versions of the battles around Haut Vents. The one you have linked to here is a DASL conversion. I produced a much larger historically accurate scenario of Panzer Lehr's attack called "Gruppe Bohm to le Rocher". Besides that there is the  4 km x 4 km master map "Hauts Vents and Pont Hebert". the Gruppe Bohm scenario uses half of that map. I also created new building skins for that scenario which are still at the Green as Jade's web site.

I have a version called 'WO2 Lehr at Hauts Vents.btt' but as mentioned I'm not sure where I got it.  That's the one I was looking at earlier...

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