Modern or WWII?

[kohlenklau]

7 minutes ago, Commanderski said:

WWII titles for me. The modern wars are too fast paced for my liking. 

+1

[Bulletpoint]

I'm personally not interested in modern combat at all. Even Cold War is too modern for me.

Why? I guess for me it's that I find that the more modern he conflict, the more it's a case of impersonal weapons systems fighting each other. The bravery and resolve of the average infantry man drafted from the general population plays less and less of a role. I find it hard to identify with drones, night vision and laser guided bombs.

Also I like that the WW2 games are based on an actual historical conflict, as compared to (pretty accurate) guesswork.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Bulletpoint

[A Canadian Cat]

I personally like all the CM games and I have something going in both modern and WW2 pretty much all the time. Not something from every title mind you

Over at the blitz we have been asking for sign ups for one WW2 and one Modern scenario most months since part way through 2021. So going back a year these are the number of people signing up to play PBEM games.

Modern 56

WW2 114

This does not count all the other games people play on their own on the Bliz ladder just the Scenario of the Month sign ups.

[Erwin]

16 hours ago, Probus said:

I will be extremely helpful and say I only play... both.  I love both the WWII and the Modern.  They are so different I keep any burnout away by swapping back and forth.

Yup... same here...

[Erwin]

15 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Especially BS just watching the news make me sick to play a game about it. 

That's odd considering what the Nazis did in WW2 - far worse than what's happening in Ukraine today.   It is an odd human phenomenon that the more time that passes we no longer feel outraged.  I predict that another few decades and Hitler's era will be historically "revised".

[Vergeltungswaffe]

10 hours ago, Simcoe said:

What draws you to Red Thunder? 
 

Exactly what @George MC posted below your question and also one more thing. 

I mostly play pbem, but RT is the best CM game against the AI imho because while it defends fairly well if the scenario designer did any kind of reasonable job, AI attacks are typically not very good. However, the Soviet attack method can be reproduced pretty accurately in CMRT and I do enjoy trying to defend against a massive, brutal Soviet assault with limited forces.

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

I do enjoy trying to defend against a massive, brutal Soviet assault with limited forces

Me too, but I'm currently trying this in a PBEM against a player also in Texas .  Hopefully the assault is not too massive, and I'm saying nothing about whether or not my forces are limited .

Edited March 29, 2022 by Vacillator

[Bozowans]

I was gonna post this topic myself a ways back, since I had been wondering this same thing.

I was also wondering why they chose to put CMSF2 on Steam first. Did they just pick that one out of a hat? Did they think it would sell better? Or were they trying to test the waters with CMSF2 before they put the real WW2 money-makers out? I always assumed that WW2 was the more popular subject, but perhaps not.

I will enjoy pretty much anything, from WW2 to modern. I probably have more hours in the WW2 games, but that's probably just because there are more WW2 games. I wouldn't say I prefer one gameplay style over another. I'll also play other wargames covering anything from ancient Greece and Rome to the Thirty Years War to today. Military history is an interesting subject, and it's interesting seeing the evolution of weapons and tactics over time, and how much (and how little) has changed over thousands of years. Wargaming can be like looking through a window to a different time period.

I suppose I enjoy the simulationist aspect of the game more than the "game" part. Some other people are much more competitive and are more interested in the winning/losing part. Some might prefer exclusively multiplayer over single player. I always had a feeling that the more competitive multiplayer types prefer WW2, because both sides tend to be more evenly matched. I tend to prefer single player games, so I can tinker and mess around with things at my own pace.

 

[chuckdyke]

9 hours ago, Erwin said:

That's odd considering what the Nazis did in WW2 -

It is history now. The Nazis we don't reenact running concentration camps and execute civilians. Even the Waffen SS in the game they are just another military unit and can't shoot surrendering units. A crime every army is guilty of. Enjoy your game of BS I don't for the time being if ever. We see how out of touch it is with reality. NATO fights till the last Ukrainian generously supplied with NATO weapons. Western Europeans politicians just a conga line of opportunists. The people of the Ukraine will remember them. 

[Phantom Captain]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

It is history now. The Nazis we don't reenact running concentration camps and execute civilians. Even the Waffen SS in the game they are just another military unit and can't shoot surrendering units. A crime every army is guilty of. Enjoy your game of BS I don't for the time being if ever. We see how out of touch it is with reality. NATO fights till the last Ukrainian generously supplied with NATO weapons. Western Europeans politicians just a conga line of opportunists. The people of the Ukraine will remember them. 

Sorry to have triggered you.  We are talking about fictional game set in 2017 though.  I do understand your point but it's really not a political discussion.

I mean, we are wargamers and this is a wargaming board.

[chuckdyke]

29 minutes ago, Phantom Captain said:

I mean, we are wargamers and this is a wargaming board.

I rest my case. Some people seem to think this war is the greatest thing what happened to Combat Mission. 

 

[chuckdyke]

7 hours ago, Bozowans said:

I tend to prefer single player games, so I can tinker and mess around with things at my own pace.

I can't see how we can make a PBEM as a true simulator. To make it a simulator is the reason I bought the game. Enjoy my game on Hotseat it is the only time I play multiplayer. First a one-to-one conversation of the home rules which is simple. Make the most senior unit situational aware the C2 flows from there. No gamey coincidental area fires permitted. Tactical SOPs are permitted, eg lobbing a hand genade in a dwelling prior entereng.

[Phantom Captain]

23 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

I rest my case. Some people seem to think this war is the greatest thing what happened to Combat Mission. 

 

That's a pretty astounding leap of logic, but ok?  

[landser]

Own both, play both, prefer World War 2 gameplay in Combat Mission.

I feel like the lower the lethality of the weapons system featured, the more tactical the gameplay is. It's why I want early-war Combat Mission. Until then, it'll do.

[Phantom Captain]

Ha, well you all inspired me after Chuckdyke killed the thread.  I went to check out my CMBN and realized the last update I had for it was 2.0!  

So this evening I purcased upgrade 3.0 and 4.0.  Oh, and Market Garden.  Oh yeah, and the vehicle and battle pack too.  And then downloaded the All in One Modpack with all the scenarios and campaigns and soundscape and Vins icons, etc!   

I'm kinda in awe at the moment and started Devil's Descent (which I played years ago and remember loving it!) and also started a medium battle as the Germans around the Falaise pocket.  Let's just say my CM options just got HUGE.  I didn't realize how much content had come out for BN over the years.  My only real WWII play has been with RT/FR.  It's really fun to fire up the Americans again and I missed those paratroopers!!

Edited April 3, 2022 by Phantom Captain

[Vergeltungswaffe]

[sburke]

On 3/29/2022 at 7:28 AM, IanL said:

I personally like all the CM games and I have something going in both modern and WW2 pretty much all the time.

Yep I play them all at various times depending on something that will trigger me.  Reading a book, seeing a pic. the trigger may vary.

[Codreanu]

12 hours ago, Phantom Captain said:

I'm kinda in awe at the moment and started Devil's Descent (which I played years ago and remember loving it!) and also started a medium battle as the Germans around the Falaise pocket.  Let's just say my CM options just got HUGE.  I didn't realize how much content had come out for BN over the years.  My only real WWII play has been with RT/FR.  It's really fun to fire up the Americans again and I missed those paratroopers!!

Totally agree, I picked it up a month ago after the all in one pack released and the amount of scenarios and campaigns is massive, you could play nothing but CMBN for years and never finish them all, and it plays totally differently compared to something like CMRT.

[kohlenklau]

No knocks against the modern titles at all. I am just challenged dealing with the modern equipment. 

Besides some inherent knowledge and familiarity with WW2 gear, really there is a great nostalgia to me for playing WW2 titles.

I personally just don't get anything emotional from the modern titles. Does that say something about me? Sheez, I dunno. Maybe now with this new war in our faces we/I must see the situation and feel something and THEN if I play, I have a connection? That sounds cheesy. That is a real war and is in the present tense. But I just report what I feel. Throw rocks if you must. I just have a great affection and love story with anything WW2. Modern war stuff just doesn't turn me on for some reason. An odd use of various analogies but that is my descriptive style. WW2=love, nostalgia, familiarity. Modern=estrangement, apathy, ignorance on my part. <I need a Thesaurus?>

[WimO]

WWII only if playing Combat Mission. Late Medieval and WWI air if  miniatures. Other computer titles Rome2 TW and Shogun2 TW, Scourge of War Waterloo. Boardwargames  Crown of Roses, Kingmaker, Holland 44. No moderns in any form.

[ratdeath]

Mostly CMCW for the last year

[Simcoe]

22 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

No knocks against the modern titles at all. I am just challenged dealing with the modern equipment. 

Besides some inherent knowledge and familiarity with WW2 gear, really there is a great nostalgia to me for playing WW2 titles.

I personally just don't get anything emotional from the modern titles. Does that say something about me? Sheez, I dunno. Maybe now with this new war in our faces we/I must see the situation and feel something and THEN if I play, I have a connection? That sounds cheesy. That is a real war and is in the present tense. But I just report what I feel. Throw rocks if you must. I just have a great affection and love story with anything WW2. Modern war stuff just doesn't turn me on for some reason. An odd use of various analogies but that is my descriptive style. WW2=love, nostalgia, familiarity. Modern=estrangement, apathy, ignorance on my part. <I need a Thesaurus?>

It does make sense. It’s hard to get any emotional impact out of firing a missile at a tank the next county over.

I think the best middle ground is playing mechanized units in WW2. You get a good mix of close range and long range combat.

[Probus]

2 hours ago, Simcoe said:

It does make sense. It’s hard to get any emotional impact out of firing a missile at a tank the next county over

That is true @Simcoe but I find myself getting much more emotionally attached to my Black Sea pixeltroopen than I do my WWII pixeltroopen for some odd reason. Many more explicatives are uttered whan my M2 Bradley opens it's doors and my soldiers get mowed down by machine guns. Compared to the same situation with a half-track. Dunno why.

I can see where the pucker factor is high because the unit tasked with recon is very expensive (again such as a Bradley).  But I don't know why it's the same with pixeltroopen.  Maybe modern troops are more relatable than the mass troops that had to be used in WWII.

And, of course, it may just be me...

[RescueToaster]

4 hours ago, Probus said:

That is true @Simcoe but I find myself getting much more emotionally attached to my Black Sea pixeltroopen than I do my WWII pixeltroopen for some odd reason. Many more explicatives are uttered whan my M2 Bradley opens it's doors and my soldiers get mowed down by machine guns. Compared to the same situation with a half-track. Dunno why.

I can see where the pucker factor is high because the unit tasked with recon is very expensive (again such as a Bradley).  But I don't know why it's the same with pixeltroopen.  Maybe modern troops are more relatable than the mass troops that had to be used in WWII.

And, of course, it may just be me...

I think it's (at least partially) because you expect to lose a lot of men in the WW2 titles, while you (should) try to preserve most of your forces in the modern titles. A lot of the campaign missions in the modern games have goals to not lose more than 15-20% of your force - my nerves are a bit frayed after playing through the SF2 and BS US campaigns over the last few months as a mediocre player stressing about every soldier lost

[Phantom Captain]

39 minutes ago, RescueToaster said:

I think it's (at least partially) because you expect to lose a lot of men in the WW2 titles, while you (should) try to preserve most of your forces in the modern titles. A lot of the campaign missions in the modern games have goals to not lose more than 15-20% of your force - my nerves are a bit frayed after playing through the SF2 and BS US campaigns over the last few months as a mediocre player stressing about every soldier lost

Haha!  I know how you feel!  It's nice to open up Red Thunder and not stress when you send your Soviets to their deaths.    I think you have a good point though.  Modern is so much more deadly which makes those casualty red lines even harder.  But playing them just make you better and better at figuring out how to do that!

I'm finding Cold War is the absolute worst for instant death and heavy casualties.  I play PBEM Black Sea (only Russia vs. Ukraine) and hold my own just fine but man, I have been getting slaughtered in Cold War!  I did spend this past weekend with a change of pace back to WWII and it was really really fun.  CMBN is really impressive with everything added and going on with it.