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Is Red Thunder secretly the best CMx2 WW2 game?


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In my opinion CMRT is the most enjoyable CM title

I would rate the titles in this way:

 

Performance/fps under big map/high troop count (Higher is better, JUDGED BY EYE):

CMCW (Seventh and latest CMx2 release)

CMFB (Sixth CMx2 release)

CMRT (Fourth CMx2 release)

CMBS (Fifth CMx2 release

CMBN-CMFI (Second-third CMx2 release)

CMSF2 (First CMx2 release - re-released after CMFB and before CMCW)

 

Diversity of official maps in regards to geological features (Including all modules):

CMRT (Hungary, Germany, Soviet Union - from plains to cities)

CMBN (Holland, Normandy - some places have bocage, others towns in huge forests)

CMFB (Ardennes - All maps in general same location geographically, they are all vast hilly maps covered in forest)

CMBS (Ukraine - lots of flat, villages, forests, repetitive)

CMFI (Most of the maps feel extremely similar, mostly hills and mountains)

CMCW (Most of the maps are huge farmland spaces with towns plopped around them)

CMSF2 (Maps are mostly desert spaces, very little vegetation)

 

Fun of official maps:

CMRT/CMFB (These are the best maps done by Battlefront)

CMBN (These maps are incredible)

CMCW (These maps are huge, clean, and represent a modern society)

CMBS (Maps are smaller, seemingly lifeless, some ported from CMRT base game)

CMFI (Tiny-medium maps with not much going on with the landscapes. A couple large decent maps, including monte cassino)

CMSF2 (Tiny-large maps which are mostly barren. Pretty lifeless)

 

Diversity of forces:

CMFI (BFC almost couldn't fit all the factions they added on the HUD)

CMBN (A lot of factions, not as many as CMFI, but more equipment for each)

CMRT (SS, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, Heer, Volksturm, Soviet Army, Guards, Partisans)

CMSF2 (A lot of factions, not as many as CMRT. Some factions aren't fleshed out well)

CMFB (The most vehicles of any ww2 title ,at least considering there are only 2 factions so far)

CMCW (Only two factions which have a good amount of vehicles)

CMBS (One more faction than CMCW but slightly less equipment for them each)

 

Fun of forces (Not influenced by mood or game performance. This one is mostly subjective):

CMBN (British faction is heavily fleshed out)

CMSF2 (Marines and British are moderately fleshed out)

CMCW (A lot of variants of tanks, armored cars, and things that go bom)

CMRT (Eastern front stuff man)

CMBS (Just not a lot of toys, and javelins kill all)

CMFI (A lot of factions but not much to them, mostly use the same equipment too, mostly infantry and American equip)

CMFB (Bored of the US v Germans by now, but there are a total ton of toys in this game. When british are added this place will change dramatically)

 

Value (Before mods, added maps -> after mods, added maps. Not including performance of game):

CMBN         ->      CMBN

CMRT         ->      CMCW

CMSF2       ->      CMSF2 (Doesn't like imported maps)

CMCW        ->      CMRT (CMRT gives its maps to all the other games except CMSF2 and CMFI)

CMBS         ->       CMBS

CMFB         ->       CMFB (CMFB gives its maps to all the other games except CMSF2 and CMFI)

CMFI           ->      CMFI (Doesn't like imported maps)

 

Features added for game release:

CMSF2 (Top attack munitions, air burst munition, precision munition, explosive reactive armor, started the best game series ever made etc.)

CMBS (Active Protection Systems, drones and amphibious abilities too I think?)

CMCW (Cluster munitions)

CMBN (MINE FLAIL MAY WE NEVER FORGET YOU)

idk the rest

 

Deadliness of games:

CMCW (No body armor)

CMBS

CMFI

CMRT

CMBN

CMFB

CMSF2

 

If I think of others I'll post them :)

If you don't own CMRT + F&R you are really missing out.

Edited by Artkin
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 Part 1: 

On 3/4/2022 at 4:10 PM, landser said:

Red Thunder could hold this spot for me, but there are too many holes in its game, namely, too narrow in timeline, not enough campaigns and a module focused on the least interesting part of the war in the east. I know folks like big urban battles, but I think Combat Mission is ill-suited in some ways to this type of warfare and anyway I just don't find it fun.

I read your statement yesterday and let me just say, you and MMM convinced me to buy Fortress Italy instead of Red Thunder. I am not very fond of CQC combat in Combat Mission either although I got much better at it. In fact, I would have bought RT for the tank battles the Eastern Front is so well known for (and Leningrad, of course. And Stalingrad... And Berlin...) And just like you said, having 1943 or even 1941 with odd early war tanks, it probably would have been an instant purchase.

On 3/4/2022 at 5:19 PM, Warts 'n' all said:

As for finding a game fun, that is the most important thing. And we all have our favourites in that respect. I don't like fighting up mountains, so I don't like Fortress Italy, other players love it.

Very good advice, and one that goes one step further than just stating "pick the theatre you like the most". Thank you for that.

15 hours ago, zmoney said:

I love the east front, but one of the reasons RT gets somewhat of a bad rap is because of the timeframe BF choose to use in this game. I think most people would have preferred a 41-43 timeframe for the game, including myself. That being said, RT is a great game, there are a ton of good scenarios and campaigns. 

Agree. See above.

8 hours ago, Ultradave said:

My advice is usually to go with the theater that holds the most interest for you. At this point, all have a lot of content and variety.

While I think that this is generally good advice, there are still downsides to each and every of the CM games that have nothing to do (or only indirectly) with the respective theatre. That advice also doesn't help if you are interested in two theatres at the same time but you can only buy one game. I don't want so sound snarky, just stating my problems with that advice. Please excuse me for that.

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Posted (edited)

  

Second part (unfortunately not chronologically, something went wrong with the quoting feature)

  

On 3/4/2022 at 3:09 PM, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Try searching for Fire and Rubble on YouTube, most of the recent content that has gone up has been for the module. 

I think the best value game is CMBN, closely followed by CMFI just for the sheer amount of stuff you get. If I were to choose between the two honestly I'd actually go for Fortress Italy as it spans a longer timeframe and has more variety of units. It goes from 1943 all the way to the end of the war, you have hills, mountains, snow, beaches, rolling grassy slopes, urban warfare, the lot. Plus you have Brits, US, Brazilians, Indians, South Africans, French, Heer, Fallschirmjäger and Waffen SS to play with (I may be missing some too) and the available equipment changes depending on the timeframe (no Fausts for the Germans early on).

Youtube shows a lot more content now, I don't know what went wrong. The algorithm is kind of iffy sometimes.

You and Landsers comments made me buy FI instead of RT. I will appreciate having a LOT of different nations instead of only Russians, Russian partisans and Germans. The incredible map variety, now that I thought about it more, has sold the game to me as well.

On 3/4/2022 at 3:25 PM, kohlenklau said:

well, the mods for the games are free. Honking my own horn a bit, there are some mods for CMRT that are totally free and change the game quite a bit. If you have questions, PM me. Continuing to milk the "harem analogy", I guess it is like a free wig to make your red head look like a Blonde for the evening's fun? 

Honking noted. Since I've been following the forum for quite some time now, I of course also stumbled already upon your different mods. I already amassed several folders with community content for all of the CM games. Thank you for the PM offer! I might come back to that.

2 hours ago, Artkin said:

In my opinion CMRT is the most enjoyable CM title

What a list! Very helpful indeed. I especially like the "deadliness" ranking. And I indeed think that CW is deadlier than BS, although the latter is always touted as the deadliest. But there is so much ERA and APS that this judgement is simply not true. I would, however, not place SF2 as the last one. I think it can be very deadly for infantry and light armored vehicles when you stumble across some well hidden unconventionals with "civilian" spotters. Or to put it differently: the amount of ambushing is incredibly high in SF2. I also think that since you are playing against unconventionals and/or a conventional force that in most departments has much weaker equipment than you do, the "weighing" of a single loss is different. Much like the the real life wars in Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq, considering the considerable superiority of the Western equipment, you should lose almost no units at all. What I am trying to say is: a loss in SF2 weighs much more than in the other games in which nearly on par forces fight each other.

I also like your value list, although I think it is very odd that FI is on the bottom and not CW.

 

In fact, after reading and trying to reproduce your findings, I am once again unsure what game to buy first. Hahaha. You really seem to like games with Russians in it and dislike Fortress Italy greatly. I do think, however, that you have valid points, at least from what I can already say about all of those games, owning all the modern era Combat Missions and having played all the demos.

But even your relatable points are highly debatable, as I tried to do above. Good thing that I will eventually buy all of the CMx2 games anyway!

 

 

Edited by Sunbather
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Posted (edited)

Summa sumarum:

Due to MMM's and Landser's comments about the variety of Fortress Italy, I was adamant to buy that game before buying Red Thunder.  With all the self-debating, I somehow also forgot how much I want to play as the British in WW2. I also had some Steam wallet credit left over and the Graviteam Tactis: Mius Front is on sale currently, so I could still my craving for the Eastern Front by just buying that game. Hence, my late reply to all of you who made such an effort to once again answer the eternal question of which CM game to buy. (My clickbait title surely helped though!)

Aaand before a fight breaks out whether CM or GT is the better game: they are both excellent in what they do. If you like to watch a lot of cinematic action and LARGE-scale operations or quite odd war scenarios (Angola-South Africa, China-USSR), GT it is. If you like direct control of your units, maps that are somehow like puzzles and not just like flat plains, and all in all a much more granular approach to combat, CM is the game. If you like war simulations you should probably buy both anyway. However, Combat Mission is still the better game.

 

Notice the past term in my first sentence? Yeah, that's right. I was adamant on buying Fortress Italy. After reading Artkin's list, I am unsure yet again. THANK you guys for all your advice, I have to finish this task on my own now.

Edited by Sunbather
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5 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

But there is so much ERA and APS that this judgement is simply not true. I would, however, not place SF2 as the last one.

Yeah I agree. I never play with APS, so my judgement was from the ERA and the individual soldier's body armor. You can't grow feelings for your troops in cmcw or you will be disappointed.

I find SF easy since the majority of the maps have long open lines of sight, and the ground is mostly barren and featureless. There is some "micro terrain" here and there but it gets boring quick to play on. With the tools provided to you as blufor it's the easiest title in my opinion. It could be the hardest if I was basing my judgement on the Syrians vs blufor, but I don't think that's a reasonable stance. ;)

7 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

I think it can be very deadly for infantry and light armored vehicles when you stumble across some well hidden unconventionals with "civilian" spotters. Or to put it differently: the amount of ambushing is incredibly high in SF2. I also think that since you are playing against unconventionals and/or a conventional force that in most departments has much weaker equipment than you do, the "weighing" of a single loss is different. Much like the the real life wars in Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq, considering the considerable superiority of the Western equipment, you should lose almost no units at all. What I am trying to say is: a loss in SF2 weighs much more than in the other games in which nearly on par forces fight each other.

This is true, if you get a good ambush in you can do a lot of damage. But in my opinion, less than what you would have done in a near peer engagement like the rest of the titles are. I find that since only one side is kitted up with body armor it makes a large difference how it plays out. But yeah every solder's life is valuable like no other in CMSF.

 

12 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

I also like your value list, although I think it is very odd that FI is on the bottom and not CW.

I feel like there was little effort put into mapmaking and unique things for their factions, if there is any to begin with. idk. Does anyone else know brazilian military vehicles in the 1940s? Most of the other vehicles are all recycled from the other games. You get an elephant but how will you possibly kill it? Maybe the allies didn't have anything huge in Italy either. That makes sense. In terms of maps - I can recall three that I enjoyed. Monte Cassino, East of Menfi, and Venafro. Otherwise meh.

 

CMCW comes packed with the most maps I've seen in a BF base game release, though they are master maps. If you combined their area it would probably be the most of any title on launch day. I would expect the next module to be just as good, like always.

There is more Soviet kit than US in CMCW I think, just enough to keep the game fun with converted maps.

Oh right and remember CMFI can't have most maps converted to it. On the flip side CMCW will accept maps from any game with no issues (Except CMSF). Even CMFI I believe. If not, most maps.

15 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

  

 

In fact, after reading and trying to reproduce your findings, I am once again unsure what game to buy first. Hahaha. You really seem to like games with Russians in it and dislike Fortress Italy greatly. I do think, however, that you have valid points, having all the modern era CM games and played demos of all the games.

But even your relatable points are highly debatable, as I tried to do above. Good thing that I will eventually buy all of the CMx2 games anyway!

 

 

Buy CMRT + CMF&R. The Berlin city map will blow your mind! Look at the map and then look at google maps!

If not, then it depends on how big of battles you will want.

(REAL TIME): CM can handle multiple battalions of troops at the same time, but only on the newer games. I don't want someone getting the wrong impression that all CM games run slow or something. So the performance metric is something to pay attention to. CMCW can handle ~4 battalions of infantry (2v2) on a large map with a decent frame rate. You can probably push it further, but that's what I've been getting on an i5 9600k @4.8Ghz or something. CMSF2 can't handle much, like less than 1v1 battalions with a liveable fps rate.

It's true that I like the Russian kit. Honestly I like any kit that isn't US. It was just really boring up until SF2 times. I just prefer the games with better performance admittedly.

 

It's all good, it was  my opinion and I chimed in. Once you start buying titles you can start converting maps from one to the other, dramatically expanding the amount of fun you can have on the games.

 

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Oh no I will convince you. Here is the CMRT Berlin map. It's actually two maps put together down the center, where they overlap. I combined them both in MS paint. Ignore the red circles

Full-Berlin.png

 

 

 

Edited by Artkin
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I get a sympathetic headache just thinking about playing Combat Mission on that map. Horses for courses eh?

 

39 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

Due to MMM's and Landser's comments about the variety of Fortress Italy

I didn't speak of CMFI, for what it is worth. Not saying you should or should not buy that one, just that my comments were for CMBN (Normandy).

As others have said, and gets repeated when these types of threads appear, the best approach is to buy the titles that feature the theatres you are most interested in. So take all of your WW2 books and sort them by front. Whichever stack is the highest reveals the Combat Mission title to buy first! Half-joking

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13 minutes ago, Artkin said:

Oh no I will convince you. Here is the CMRT Berlin map. It's actually two maps put together down the center, where they overlap. I combined them both in MS paint.

Since I live in Berlin, I am very eager to play Fire and Rubble and see how it matches the modern Berlin and the one you know from photos ; ) Still, considering that it slowly (slowly!) gets warmer in Berlin, I don't know if I really want to play Winter Berlin maps right now. Also, there is the issue with CQC / house combat in CMx2 games.

 

Regarding your previous post: I really like how you build up your arguments and how you tackle my own arguments! Let me just answer some of your statements in random order:

I also like Soviet units much more than the American units because they somehow feel less familiar at least to me. And they really went full in with CMCW! I mean, you even have T-55s at your disposal! Yeah,

By now, I should admit that I actually refunded Cold War because for me the optimization was MUCH worse than the other games. There was severe input lag when issuing orders. It happens with the other games, too, but not that frequently. I play turn based, by the way. I guess, my Ryzen 3600 CPU is to blame. Considering how many games I play that require a high single clock speed, I should have gone with Intel but it was just not a good option two years ago. Anyway, I decided to refund CW and will re-buy it once it gets at least a bit cheaper and/or the Engine 5 upgrade drops and/or we get German units. From what I've played though, I must say that the CW scenarios were among the best I've played in a Combat Mission game so far.

32 minutes ago, Artkin said:

It's all good, it was  my opinion and I chimed in. Once you start buying titles you can start converting maps from one to the other, dramatically expanding the amount of fun you can have on the games.

 

Like I said, I really like your way of argumenting ; )

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, landser said:

I didn't speak of CMFI, for what it is worth. Not saying you should or should not buy that one, just that my comments were for CMBN (Normandy).

As others have said, and gets repeated when these types of threads appear, the best approach is to buy the titles that feature the theatres you are most interested in. So take all of your WW2 books and sort them by front. Whichever stack is the highest reveals the Combat Mission title to buy first! Half-joking

Yes, sorry. I didn't want to put words in your mouth. You indeed said nothing about Fortress Italy. What I was trying to say is: since I am making a decision between RT and FI, your statement that RT is a bit lacking when it comes to different factions and terrain, I deduced that I should buy FI.

I have 0 books that directly tackle any of the theatres of WW2, so this method doesn't apply to me. I guess, I just outed myself as a "noob". However, that is one thing I want to do together with getting deeper in realistic war simulations: read up on the history of each theatre.

Edited by Sunbather
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31 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

Since I live in Berlin, I am very eager to play Fire and Rubble and see how it matches the modern Berlin and the one you know from photos ; ) Still, considering that it slowly (slowly!) gets warmer in Berlin, I don't know if I really want to play Winter Berlin maps right now. Also, there is the issue with CQC / house combat in CMx2 games.

You don't want to roll over Berlin with your T80B's? The consider - every blown out wall (A majority of the buildings are damaged.. it's well done) can have a dragon/tow fire from it comfortably ;) I know how to make it work for CMBS too

What's the weather like in Hungary? Either country - house combat with CM isn't awful, but it would be great to see it improved. And that'd be no reason to stop me from buying this, since this is the pinnacle of Battlefront mapmaking atm.

Edited by Artkin
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Books are so passe anyway. Old folks read books made out of paper. And I'm pretty old, so....

Many years ago, I was at my local library and looking for something to read. Somehow my attention fell on Ernie Pyle's Brave Men. Pyle was one of the top war correspondents in WW2. At that age I was ignorant of what had happened. I knew there had been a war, Allies vs Germans, and the Allies won. Beyond that, nothing really.

But I took this book home and it really changed my life. I became engrossed in it, it made me think of things I never had, about the human cost of war. Of the suffering and determination, of courage and despair. There's a chapter in the book called The Death of Captain Wasko, one of Pyle's dispatches home. Waskow was killed in Italy, in the Liri valley. The story relates how Wasko's men came by one by one to pay silent respects to their officer as his body lay along a low stone wall waiting for transportation down the mountain. Pyle described how each soldier acted, straightening the points on the Captain's collar, or speaking a few words of respect. Moments so personal that Pyle felt like an intruder as he watched at a distance. It really moved me, and led to a life-long pursuit of knowing all I can about what happened during the war.

I ended up buying a copy, which I still have of course. But it is now surrounded by hundreds of books about WW2.

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1 hour ago, Sunbather said:

they somehow feel less familiar at least to me.

Yep. Same here

1 hour ago, Sunbather said:

By now, I should admit that I actually refunded Cold War because for me the optimization was MUCH worse than the other games.

This seems wrong, CMCW should run the best. Do you own the Steam version of CMCW? I find the Steam games run slower for me and have their own particular bugs, but idk what it's like nowadays, I haven't tried the steam version since they released. And that was just briefly. 

1 hour ago, Sunbather said:

I guess, my Ryzen 3600 CPU is to blame. Considering how many games I play that require a high single clock speed, I should have gone with Intel but it was just not a good option two years ago. Anyway, I decided to refund CW and will re-buy it once it gets at least a bit cheaper and/or the Engine 5 upgrade drops and/or we get German units. From what I've played though, I must say that the CW scenarios were among the best I've played in a Combat Mission game so far.

Like I said, I really like your way of argumenting ; )

Yeah a high clock speed matters. You can't overclock yours? AMD seems like the way to go otherwise I guess. I wonder how the newest cpus which can push 5ghz would perform. I haven't heard of anyone with one around here though. What's going on with you sounds like a driver issue, probably with AMD. So engine 5 wont solve that. Germans are totally on the way, it's just a matter of time. On screen air support was mentioned as possible in an interview but they didn't say if they were working on it or if they were going to implement it.

 

 

Here Elvis says "As Ian mentioned in the link he posted, I changed a tank (I forget which) to have a top speed of 1,000kph. I can change anything.". Apparently it's going to be a good year so maybe something special is on the way!

I guess I'm biased because CMRT is near and dear to me. The largest map is over 25km^2 (5696 x 5696m) but you have to download it. You can always convert all the downloadable CMRT (or any) maps before even buying CMRT. If you want to play the CMRT (or any) downloadable scenarios you can convert them and then replace the units to something that makes sense according to the AI plan.

cmrt even has 5 huge orsha master maps. They are each around 5x3km so about ~75 km^2 of marshland-forest. They are geographically arranged in a line. It's perfect for having an in depth defense. Actually here is an old post of mine that I forgot I made. There are pictures of the 5 maps:

 

cmfb and cmbn are stacked with fantastic maps too. I think CMFI was the weakest title on maps, but you do get a huge master map of the monte cassino mountain and town underneath.

But thank you, and hopefully you find the game that is the most enjoyable for you.

Edited by Artkin
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33 minutes ago, landser said:

Books are so passe anyway. Old folks read books made out of paper. And I'm pretty old, so....

Many years ago, I was at my local library and looking for something to read.  [...]

Oh, you should see my book shelves! But unfortunately, history books still don't click with me. I just can't get myself to read them. No issues with reading "dry" philosophy though. I think that the biggest issue for me is that I don't know where to begin and so I want to start with overview books that cover the whole 20th century or at least the whole WW2 but overview books are the driest thing you can read in my opinion. But like I said: whatever I WW2 CM game I will buy, I will simultaneously read up on that theatre.

Thanks for the book tips! Those books don't sound like your ususal dry history at all! I've already put them on my list.

 

7 minutes ago, Artkin said:

This seems wrong, CMCW should run the best. Do you own the Steam version of CMCW? I find the Steam games run slower for me and have their own particular bugs, but idk what it's like nowadays, I haven't tried the steam version since they released. And that was just briefly. 

Yeah a high clock speed matters. You can't overclock yours? AMD seems like the way to go otherwise I guess. I wonder how the newest cpus which can push 5ghz would perform. I haven't heard of anyone with one around here though. What's going on with you sounds like a driver issue, probably with AMD. So engine 5 wont solve that. Germans are totally on the way, it's just a matter of time. On screen air support was mentioned as possible in an interview but they didn't say if they were working on it or if they were going to implement it.

Yes, it was the Steam version. I only have SF2 as Battlefront and Steam version, I might make some tests if the Steam version really runs slower. Black Sea I only have on Steam and it runs much better than CW for me. Overclock, yes, but only to 4250 mhz savely. Tried also to overclock only the cores that are utilized the most by the CM games and I overclocked them to 4450 if I remember correctly but it wasn't much better. I am waiting for the new AMD CPUs which should come out later this year. I am pretty sure they will get close to Intel's single core performance and also have an even better IPC than both Intel and previous Ryzen CPUs.

Yeah, Germans are on their way, I know but it still might take a while.

Thew whole thing with converting maps from one CM game to other CM games is new to me. And I probably won't look into that before having played a substantial amount of the vanilla games.

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Yeah when you need a new flavor, you can start converting the coolest maps from other games. Reds invade Berlin 1979! Etc. Process takes a second of learning and then doing. It is quick.

CMSF2 doesn't perform well in any case, but the CMCW battlefront.com version is amazing. I wouldn't be surprised to see every game be bumped to that level with upgrade 5. It would be totally incredible. I love playing ww1 in cmrt and in cmfi, but I want a tad more speed out of my games.

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  • 2 months later...

Rome to Victory and Fire and Rubble are my favourite titles by far - the wonderful Master Maps (mostly by Bootie) available on FGM, which are readily adapted to a plethora of good QB maps, have given me months of fun in CMFR...

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  • 2 weeks later...

CMRT basegame needed the Fire and Rubble module, That module exponentially expanded the scope of the title. All the seasons, all the weather types, all the whitewashed vehicles, not to mention the flood of new QB maps. It made it a game worthy of the 'eastern front'. Frankly, BFC bit off a bit more than they could chew with both Fire and Rubble and Rome to Victory modules. There were Herculean struggles and long delays getting them out the door. But that's all behind us now. Its rather like what they say about childbirth, you quickly forget how much pain was involved.

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5 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Now I have found a solution of splitting sections in halftracks 'Blunting the Spear' has become more enjoyable. Trivial things like this can make all the difference in playability. 

What exactly do you mean?

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

What exactly do you mean?

The scout unit can exit a halftrack, APC or IFV and the other team members remain inside. Till recently I didn't know how to do that. 

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

What exactly do you mean?

zug.jpg

zugB.jpg

Now I can travel tactically the way you're supposed too. A scout can look over a crest or around a bend before the 'Zug' proceeds further. With the same unit. 

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4 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

zug.jpg

zugB.jpg

Now I can travel tactically the way you're supposed too. A scout can look over a crest or around a bend before the 'Zug' proceeds further. With the same unit. 

I've never been able to split a squad inside a vehicle. Is this a new feature in F&R?

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Posted (edited)

Chuckie is most likely splitting the squad into teams before he gives them the order to enter the vehicle. I suspect that there is another type of team entering in between so the squad stays separated.

Edited by BornGinger
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2 hours ago, BornGinger said:

Chuckie is most likely splitting the squad into teams before he gives them the order to enter the vehicle. I suspect that there is another type of team entering in between so the squad stays separated.

I do that in reverse with US by detailing the scout team to man whatever .50cal(s) are on the halftrack. During setup place scout team A in halftrack squad B, scout B to squad C, scout C to squad A, etc.

Best done during setup but sometimes done during the heat of the action (simply detailing a scout team to man .50cals).

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10 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I've never been able to split a squad inside a vehicle. Is this a new feature in F&R?

First, I play on WEGO I don't know or that makes a difference. Split before mounting the vehicle and give the vehicle a move order and the unit B just mounted a dismount order. Now mount unit A in the vehicle. You see they don't merge. Very useful in SF2, British APC's often leave only the driver now for example the scout unit can operate the .50 Cal. I know it is more micromanagement, but I soon got used to it. 

 

7 hours ago, Howler said:

I do that in reverse with US by detailing the scout team to man whatever .50cal(s) are on the halftrack. During setup place scout team A in halftrack squad B, scout B to squad C, scout C to squad A, etc.

Yes, I used to do that too, now I prefer to keep the formations together. 

 

10 hours ago, BornGinger said:

the squad stays separated.

Test it but I found the units won't merge provided you give them move or dismount orders. 

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On 3/5/2022 at 11:32 PM, Artkin said:

CMSF2 doesn't perform well in any case, but the CMCW battlefront.com version is amazing. I wouldn't be surprised to see every game be bumped to that level with upgrade 5. It would be totally incredible. I love playing ww1 in cmrt and in cmfi, but I want a tad more speed out of my games.

That is not my perception. CMSF2 has the oldest vehicle models. Battlefront say they redid them, well the soldiers sure, but the vehicle files are mostly the same. In case of frame-rate the old vehicle models are a plus: These vehicles had to be used on 2011 computers. So they had to take great care to make up to 5 low-detail variations of them: distance-lods. 

In the last new title, CMCW, the attention to distance-lods was ... not that good. Try to play v1.00 of that game on a low-end computer and you will see lots of things wrong. So they fixed the most obvious things in the patches. But still things like the M16 rifle only has 1 full detail model for all distances, regardless of whether or not that M16 rifle is actually the size of a pixel at 500 meters.

The CMSF2 maps have less trees of course. But the tree system in CMSF2 is different from all the other games. These trees are modular things. with slightly random appearance for each of them. They don't seem to really work well for frame-rate and especially drawing distance. They don't support the "trees nearby, trunks in the distance" option either.

I have no reason to think the actual renderer in any of the latest versions of the CM game is different from one another, not in image quality and not in performance. The steam version may be a little slower because of a steam launcher taking up CPU cycles in the background. To make more substantiated statements about the renderer things would need to be compared with a frame-rate counter and with equal scenes to render. With the games being content-locked that is not really possible.

 

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