ZellZeka Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 11 minutes ago, Harmon Rabb said: I have a question for you after reading your posts. Are you posting all of this out of frustration that Ukraine is not getting enough support from the west? Believe me plenty of posters here wish the west would give more material support to Ukraine and lift restrictions on Ukraine being able to hit targets inside Russia. Are you frustrated by something someone posted here? Are you being sarcastic in some of your posts in response? Sarcasm is kind of hard to detect through text on the internet so I'm not sure. Or do you really just think that this war is not worth fighting period? Even if more support was given to Ukraine and more restrictions lifted on the AFU's rules of engagement. And yes unfortunately you are right North America also has it's share of idiots who support Putin's narrative. This is why it is important for us to do what we can to counter these lies through open conversation and facts. What is the point of money and military assistance from the West if the Ukrainians themselves are no longer willing to fight. Their morale is broken. The units of Ukrainian brigades have only 40-50% of their personnel. Nobody wants to go to war anymore. Military registration and enlistment offices catch and forcefully send random people to war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 10 minutes ago, ZellZeka said: in 2022, many Ukrainians were militant: “look how stupid and helpless these Russians are, soon we will be in Moscow.” However, everything turned out completely differently. The Russians have proven that, despite the sanctions, they are capable of rebuilding their economy on a war footing and mobilizing the population in time. What can I say, look at the purge started by Putin in the Ministry of Defense. He appointed an effective manager as minister instead of a stubborn martinet, and is actively getting rid of corrupt officials who have been corrupting this ministry for years. On the other hand, we have Zelensky, who was unable to mobilize the population and the economy in time (instead, he only blames the Western allies, demanding more money). His defensive lines on the border turned out to be fake. In two days of offensive in the Kharkov region, the Russians advanced the same distance as the Ukrainians advanced in two months in the Zaporozhye region. And Ukrainian loser generals only receive promotions for their failures. No, this is not a fair reflection of reality. The only Russia is not defeated is because it is a cruel and brutal dictatorship that is burning through decades of Soviet war material and hundreds of thousands of lives. Of course Putin is having more success than Zelensky keeping this war going on his terms. But the Kharkiv offensive was another Russian failure, not success. You say you have been reading this forum so you should know by now that the opinion here is that territory itself is meaningless in terms of the direction of this war. What is important is that Russia put significant effort into attempting to grab a large amount of land and instead got stopped after only getting a small amount. As I said, you are distorting reality to fit your bias. Rejecting objective reality to support a fantasy is not productive. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZellZeka Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Well, here is another evidence of the critical state of the Ukrainian armed forces. The French stated that they would send their military to Ukraine only as a last resort. Looks like this extreme case has come 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omae2 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 19 hours ago, Kinophile said: Trying very, very VERY hard (oh man it was hard today) to not let the forum distract me but this one I can't resist. Brexit was voluntary, my friend. 100% their own political process (even if 49% actually voted against) instigated by a spineless PM. So 100% of 51% (or thereabouts) decided to leave. No one "forced them". Hungary in BRICS, the protected by an "eastern military".... Um which one? RUS? Cos they've stripped their borders to deal with a bunch of Uppity Ukrainians who just don't seem to get the Good News of Modern Russian Imperialism. And would need to overly NATO to "protect" Orban. Never mind the absolutely certain domestic insurgency and rioting. Cmon Govnor. Yer 'Avin a larf! Yeah but in Hungary there is an 80% support of staying in the EU. Cause we think its economically beneficial. We would only vote ourself out if there would be some big political or economical action against Hungary that my government could use to propagate that the EU is hurting us. Or if the EU is simply throw out Hungary. Also if Hungary would have been under the russian umbrella (and don't get me wrong i don't want this) they would put soldiers here. That would ensure that if the government suppress opposition voices with violence there will be no intervention. Which is where we heading in my opinion. I mean they bought a lot of tear gas two months ago. But all this is just speculation so you're right "larf". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredTopHat Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ZellZeka said: Well, here is another evidence of the critical state of the Ukrainian armed forces. The French stated that they would send their military to Ukraine only as a last resort. Looks like this extreme case has come According to pro Russian propaganda, the AFU has been in a 'critical' situation for years and yet nothing has really happened. This is literally just conjecture. I have been a long time lurker enjoying this thread for years and I just cannot sit by and watch a clear propaganda account spout such rubbish. I know several Ukrainians who would literally punch you in the face for suggesting that Ukraine 'should just surrender man' after the disgusting acts committed upon them. You claim Russia is 'fixing' its corruption when in reality its just one faction cleaning out the other. Both are neck deep in said corruption all while while new stooges are brought in. They arrested general Popov who was specifically trying to point the many flaws in the Russian military system last year (And got fired for it) and seemed to be one of the few who actually gave a damn about the lives of his soldiers. Russia is not fixing anything, they are just assigning fall guys and pretending nothing is wrong. Edited May 27 by ArmouredTopHat 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, ZellZeka said: Of course, I have already expressed my opinion before. If Ukraine capitulates, the mass deaths of Ukrainian civilians will stop. Yes, the Russians will deal with the most irreconcilable Ukrainians, but there are only a few of them. Do you realise that out of an entire population, "a few of them" could easily be tens or hundreds of thousands of people ? You're effectively saying that accepting a level of mass murder is the way forward. And that also doesn't equate with "if they stop resisting, the bloodshed will stop". That's just mad thinking, if not propaganda. Cheers, I'm out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZellZeka Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 5 minutes ago, ArmouredTopHat said: I know several Ukrainians who would literally punch you in the face for suggesting that Ukraine 'should just surrender man' after the disgusting acts committed upon them. Are these guys still alive? Or wait a minute, they must be completely safe away from the front now. This is the whole point of the Ukrainians - a lot of noise and show-off, but when it comes to a real fight, they retreat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, ZellZeka said: This is the whole point of the Ukrainians - a lot of noise and show-off, but when it comes to a real fight, they retreat. Just like they did in Feb '22...seriously, we kicked MAGA nutjobs out of here for less than this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredTopHat Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, ZellZeka said: Are these guys still alive? Or wait a minute, they must be completely safe away from the front now. This is the whole point of the Ukrainians - a lot of noise and show-off, but when it comes to a real fight, they retreat. See there it is. That right there tells me you are not Ukrainian at all. Obvious to see that thin veil of contempt you have for Ukrainians daring to fight against an invading country. Also hilarious to suggest that Ukrainians 'retreat from a real fight' after literally fighting for years against the Russians. What is up with this crazy idea that Ukrainians are somehow not fighting properly yet Russia is unable to gain much ground at all (After losing over half of their initial gains since the invasion) You do realise that your propaganda makes no sense right? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZellZeka Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, Baneman said: Do you realise that out of an entire population, "a few of them" could easily be tens or hundreds of thousands of people ? No, there will be no tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths. There will be several dozen or hundreds of show executions, after which the rest will shut up. Look what happened in Kherson during the occupation. Thousands of residents attended rallies and protested against the occupation. But the Russians quickly identified the most active protesters, arrested them, after which all these protests quickly faded away. The Russians have very effective tactics for dealing with protesters that have been worked out over the years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, ZellZeka said: Are these guys still alive? Or wait a minute, they must be completely safe away from the front now. This is the whole point of the Ukrainians - a lot of noise and show-off, but when it comes to a real fight, they retreat. With half a million Russian casualties, and every square kilometer that Ukraine has given up looking more cratered than the Somme, this is the single dumbest bit of Russian propaganda you have spouted. That is a strong statement, too. You are spouting nonsense at a group of people who have been paying attention since the beginning. Try harder, or go away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZellZeka Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, The_Capt said: Just like they did in Feb '22...seriously, we kicked MAGA nutjobs out of here for less than this. They were the bravest and bravest guys, but they died long ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredTopHat Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, dan/california said: With half a million Russian casualties, and every square kilometer that Ukraine has given up looking more cratered than the Somme, this is the single dumbest bit of Russian propaganda you have spouted. That is a strong statement, too. You are spouting nonsense at a group of people who have been paying attention since the beginning. Try harder, or go away. This is genuinely something that baffles me. Russian propaganda takes every chance it gets to deride Ukrainians, claiming that they have no fighting spirit, or cant use NATO weapons properly ect. Any success is claimed to be 'because of NATO', a trend we have seen since the Moskva went down. They will even claim crazy stuff like 'Polish units' being used in areas where they suffered reverses. They would rather blame the weather than give Ukrainians any credit for military success. Its pathological at this point. Yet years into the war, they continue to struggle to advance in any significant manner, bleed equipment at a rate that suggests outright depletion of -the soviet arsenal- they once had in a mere year or two now, while also suffering a truly catastrophic amount of human loss while also in effect losing well over half of their initial gains. Yet they continue to claim they are winning. Edited May 27 by ArmouredTopHat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredTopHat Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, ZellZeka said: They were the bravest and bravest guys, but they died long ago. A lot of Ukrainian units continue to be largely volunteer based, and there are plenty of them still alive since 2014, let alone 2022. Do you actually believe that Ukraine has suffered millions of casualties or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Please don't feed the sad Troll.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZellZeka Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 6 minutes ago, ArmouredTopHat said: A lot of Ukrainian units continue to be largely volunteer based, and there are plenty of them still alive since 2014, let alone 2022. Do you actually believe that Ukraine has suffered millions of casualties or something? 40-50% staffing of units. This is all that remains of the old motivated fighters. This was stated by reporter Yuri Butusov, respected by the Ukrainian military. Although no, in addition to motivated soldiers, this number also includes soldiers who went to war, attracted by high earnings. Soldiers are paid 100,000 hryvnia (approximately $2,500) to be on the front lines. This is a lot of money, and many are willing to take the risk. But the motivation to fight among such fighters is not very high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 So how long we gonna let this jerk derail the thread w nonsense? Can he just be banned from this thread? And then he can start his own thread of "murder is always murder victims' fault" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredTopHat Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, ZellZeka said: 40-50% staffing of units. This is all that remains of the old motivated fighters. This was stated by reporter Yuri Butusov, respected by the Ukrainian military. Although no, in addition to motivated soldiers, this number also includes soldiers who went to war, attracted by high earnings. Soldiers are paid 100,000 hryvnia (approximately $2,500) to be on the front lines. This is a lot of money, and many are willing to take the risk. But the motivation to fight among such fighters is not very high. You keep claiming 'no motivation' yet the same soldiers are still fighting just as hard as they did before. How about you actually source this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 14 minutes ago, danfrodo said: So how long we gonna let this jerk derail the thread w nonsense? Can he just be banned from this thread? And then he can start his own thread of "murder is always murder victims' fault" Gotta admit, my troll timer had run into overtime. Good to see though, means we are still relevant enough for Russian IO to make the effort. Perversely it has the exact opposite effect that they are shooting for and demonstrated how poorly Russia understand the West. Want us to go away? Let us get bored and distracted. Want us engaged? Tell us we "can't or won't do something". This guy did more to motivate me to support this war more than anything for quite some time. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viko Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 14 minutes ago, danfrodo said: So how long we gonna let this jerk derail the thread w nonsense? Can he just be banned from this thread? And then he can start his own thread of "murder is always murder victims' fault" This guy just has his own personal opinion about this war, and you insult him because you don't like what he says. I have been following this forum for a long time and unfortunately there are fewer and fewer Ukrainians here, people who know about the events taking place in Ukraine first-hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I just banned ZellZeka for two reasons. First, I suspect he's someone I've already banned and that's why I gave no warning. Second, it's pretty clear ZellZeka is not at all interested in defending his positions, just pushing his opinion. That is a bannable offense regardless of topic. Trolls are never a good thing. Let me very clear about something. I have no problem with someone holding the position that things are worse in Ukraine than we might think them to be and that it is us that is living in a bubble. In fact, I welcome this sort of thing as should everybody here. But that's not what is happening. What we've seen is someone who is making big claims and supporting it with "whataboutisms". We can play whack-a-mole with his arguments for months and never get anywhere. If someone doesn't understand what I'm talking about, just read my last few responses to him where I responded with factual challenges to his PoV. Then check to see how he responded, if there even was a response. For example, saying that there's no evidence that Russia grabbed Ukrainians off the street to fight this war and me pointing out how wrong this was. No response form him. Plenty of other examples. If ZellZeka really wanted to convince us of a point of view he would not need to use dodging and false narratives to get his point across. Instead he'd accept responsibility for making statements that he can't back up and focus on elements that he can properly defend. None of us should be surprised that there is a segment of the Ukrainian population that is defeatist. All societies in war have them. All we can do is hope, for the sake of Ukraine, that they do not call the shots and allow their country to become the slave state that Putin wishes it to be. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ZellZeka said: 40-50% staffing of units. This is all that remains of the old motivated fighters. This was stated by reporter Yuri Butusov, respected by the Ukrainian military. Although no, in addition to motivated soldiers, this number also includes soldiers who went to war, attracted by high earnings. Soldiers are paid 100,000 hryvnia (approximately $2,500) to be on the front lines. This is a lot of money, and many are willing to take the risk. But the motivation to fight among such fighters is not very high. Edit: Dammit Steve...you clipped my razor sharp retort once again! Edited May 27 by The_Capt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, Viko said: This guy just has his own personal opinion about this war, and you insult him because you don't like what he says. I have been following this forum for a long time and unfortunately there are fewer and fewer Ukrainians here, people who know about the events taking place in Ukraine first-hand. See my previous comments. To be objective, we've only ever had 2 Ukrainians posting here on a regular basis. One of which was banned for the same behavior I just banned ZellZeka for. Which is one reason why I suspect they are the same person. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, Viko said: This guy just has his own personal opinion about this war, and you insult him because you don't like what he says. I have been following this forum for a long time and unfortunately there are fewer and fewer Ukrainians here, people who know about the events taking place in Ukraine first-hand. hmm one post to defend a russian shill..... Usually we give a shout out to new folks and their first post... this one... nah. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 4 minutes ago, The_Capt said: Edit: Dammit Steve...you clipped my razor sharp retort once again! If it makes you feel any better, I read it before you deleted and I found it razor sharp Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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