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The Liebstandarte - New youtube documentary


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I won't directly accuse this man of being a neo-nazi. 

He seems to be entirely uncritical of the SS, even recanting his earlier view that they were 'just a bunch of murderers forced to fight' in another video: apparently 'things are not always as they seem', as he has learnt they were not forced to fight.  In apparently ignoring the political, idelogical, and genocidal side of the organisation and the war, instead of solemnly and soberly decrying it, or reflecting on what it means for whatever honour or virtue the members believed themselves to have, he does a disservice to their victims. 

I am deeply suspicious of anyone who takes such an interest in roleplaying as a member of such an organisation, other than for precisely the length of time necessary for a documentary, film or reenactment, before taking the uniform off for fear of being sullied by it.  The live stream seems well attended by neo-nazis.  I wouldn't be inclined to give this channel time or views.

Edited by fireship4
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1 hour ago, fireship4 said:

I won't directly accuse this man of being a neo-nazi. 

He seems to be entirely uncritical of the SS, even recanting his earlier view that they were 'just a bunch of murderers forced to fight' in another video: apparently 'things are not always as they seem', as he has learnt they were not forced to fight.  In apparently ignoring the political, idelogical, and genocidal side of the organisation and the war, instead of solemnly and soberly decrying it, or reflecting on what it means for whatever honour or virtue the members believed themselves to have, he does a disservice to their victims. 

I am deeply suspicious of anyone who takes such an interest in roleplaying as a member of such an organisation, other than for precisely the length of time necessary for a documentary, film or reenactment, before taking the uniform off for fear of being sullied by it.  The live stream seems well attended by neo-nazis.  I wouldn't be inclined to give this channel time or views.

You are offcourse free to have your oppinion on this...but for christ sake ! It's a historical documentary...We don't have to see nazism and racism in every little thing do we ?

Today even a bridge or a coup of coffe is racist...It is taking it a bit to far.

This guy has been around for some time  and if he did indeed promote nazism he would have been banned from youtube a long time ago....I have watched a few of the clips he has done and they don't really seem very nazi to me...

This is only the first episode of a future series...Surely he will not fail to mention what these guys did or did not do in future episodes.

If anyone take offence and considder promoting this video as being pro-nazi or racist...I appologise...That was not my intention...But really ?

Fireship4 i will not respond to any further replies you might have on this topic on these forums...If we do discuss this the thread will certainly get locked right away...

It might still...

Regards/ Glubokii

 

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'We don't have to see nazism and racism in every little thing do we?'  No, indeed.  But if we can't at least suspect nazism in a guy dressing as an SS guy all the time and enjoying it, not to mention all the people in the stream mentioning the letters A and H, then we might as well be blind.  There are those who over-react to certain things, indeed.  I am simply making the observation that you have to be seriously lacking in human sympathy to dress up and enjoy playing a member of such a famously murderous organisation.  There are people here who remember those killed in the name of the ideology whose badge he wears for fun.  Him saying he has no political agenda is nonsense, at some point you cannot separate the two.  The uniform means nothing without the ideology.

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11 hours ago, fireship4 said:

'We don't have to see nazism and racism in every little thing do we?'  

When we're talking about the 1st SS Panzer Division, yes we do. The Waffen SS was an integral part of the Nazis' racist and genocidal warmongering. I am deeply, deeply suspicious of anyone who makes a hobby of dressing up like these guys (especially if you are an American, which this guy's accent tells me he is). The Military History Visualized guy has made dozens of videos about the WW2 German military but never felt the need to dress up as an SS soldier while doing so.

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1) intuitively I dislike the content 

2) I also don't like the idea of banning everything what I or other people dislike

11 hours ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

"Liebstandarte" (Lovely Guards/ Lovely Banner)

640x640.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bearstronaut said:

When we're talking about the 1st SS Panzer Division, yes we do. The Waffen SS was an integral part of the Nazis' racist and genocidal warmongering. I am deeply, deeply suspicious of anyone who makes a hobby of dressing up like these guys (especially if you are an American, which this guy's accent tells me he is). The Military History Visualized guy has made dozens of videos about the WW2 German military but never felt the need to dress up as an SS soldier while doing so.

Haven't watched the video fully, although I saw him standing in his suit all crisp and stuff, posted with SS paraphernalia.could very well be there are some sympathies.

However, most Waffen-SS soldiers in the end were soldiers and ordinary humans. Brainwashed probably, torn up mentally by years of brutal war most likely, I don't need to spell out the things which happened as they are well described.
But one thing that I notice is that some people think that all Waffen-SS troops were some kind of hell hounds pure evil beings from the cradle to the grave. While more likely most of m were ordinary kidz who grew up in a specific time and place and thought to have some adventure and perhaps do 'good' (or what goes for good in their context). The end result wasn't pretty often and quite some of m turned out to become mass murderers.

But the mistake is to think that this couldn't have happened to you or me. Dehumanize them at your peril, I'd say.
There is also ample examples of soldiers, who have been in a war for long, doing stuff we think is inhumane. War is hell.

 

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14 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

In general I'd agree with your comments, but the SS (and those who idolise them) get a lot less slack from me than others.  :mellow:

Yeah, an American man in his 20s in 2022 who cosplays as an SS soldier throws up all kinds of red flags.

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1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

However, most Waffen-SS soldiers in the end were soldiers and ordinary humans. Brainwashed probably, torn up mentally by years of brutal war most likely, I don't need to spell out the things which happened as they are well described.
But one thing that I notice is that some people think that all Waffen-SS troops were some kind of hell hounds pure evil beings from the cradle to the grave. While more likely most of m were ordinary kidz who grew up in a specific time and place and thought to have some adventure and perhaps do 'good' (or what goes for good in their context). The end result wasn't pretty often and quite some of m turned out to become mass murderers.
 

I think you´re both right and wrong - depending on what you mean by "in the end". 🙂

SS troops were certainly not just "ordinary" soldiers and germans to begin with. You had to live up to certain physical, racial and ideological standards to be allowed to join the SS, including the Waffen SS. In other words you had to be an "aryan" and a die hard nazi to be admitted.
But as the war wore on and the power of the SS grew, the Waffen SS transformed from an elite unit into an army rival to the Wehrmacht. So the racial and ideological requirements were gradually slackened and replaced by conscription in order to fulfill the Waffen SS´ ever growing need for more fresh recruits.
So yes, in the end of the war, the Waffen SS soldiers were just ordinary germans that happend to have been drafted by the SS instead of the Wehrmacht.

Edited by umlaut
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2 minutes ago, umlaut said:

I think you´re both right and wrong - depending on what you mean by "in the end". 🙂

SS troops were certainly not just "ordinary" soldiers and germans to begin with. You had to live up to certain physical, racial and ideological standards to be allowed to join the SS, including the Waffen SS. In other words you had to be an "aryan" and a die hard nazi to be admitted.
But as the war wore on and the power of the SS grew, the Waffen SS transformed from an elite unit into an army rival to the Wehrmacht. So the racial and ideological requirements were gradually slacked and replaced by conscription in order to fulfill the Waffen SS´ ever growing need for more fresh recruits.
So yes, in the end of the war, the Waffen SS soldiers were just ordinary germans that happend to have been drafted by the SS instead of the Wehrmacht.

Well in the end meant 'overall, looking back with hindsight'. But even in your example there might have been quite some 'boys' looking for a good time believing what the 'media' / peers / whatever told them, whether they were brainwashed from birth and didn't knew better or not. 

Not to excuse something whatever. But at the same time I think it's hypocritic to call out WAFFEN-SS BAD whenever the name is mentioned, or believing that in every combat report where their involvement is discussed it is necessary to demand their warcrimes are also described.

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If you machine gun inside a house with women and children it is rightly a war crime. Dropping a bomb from a height of 5 miles on a house with women and children is not. Lesson to be found guilty of a warcrime you must first lose a war. I don't condemn the bombing crews but the likes of Bomber Harris had a case to answer. Would have happened if he had been on the losing side.

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21 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

If you machine gun inside a house with women and children it is rightly a war crime. Dropping a bomb from a height of 5 miles on a house with women and children is not. Lesson to be found guilty of a warcrime you must first lose a war. I don't condemn the bombing crews but the likes of Bomber Harris had a case to answer. Would have happened if he had been on the losing side.

My grandfather fought in the Dutch 'politionele acties' aka Indonesia independence war. He wasn't part of the elements which are known to have committed warcrimes. But it sure as hell wasn't no nice war. Seemed he was a good soldier as they asked him to stay 4 years / until the end. He did. I never knew him unfortunately, but he almost never talked about it with my father. We do have quite some pictures and insignias / medals etc.

The pictures show, especially the earlier times (and that's most of m), that he was a 19year old boy. Posing with guns, having fun with girls, drinks, etc. But also funerals of comrades, dug-in positions with descriptions of enemy mortar fire, etc.

For the reasons he fought it was probably the only alternative for working in the mines or being a servant in a farm for cost & lodging. Plus the idea of adventure, going somewhere, helping the country. 
Sometimes I wonder what the difference was for him vs a German Wehrmacht / SS soldier. We sure do look at them different.
 

Edited by Lethaface
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Waffen SS a 19 year old received a decent salary and good food and had the political awareness of an ant. After 3 years at the 'Ostfront' would have been at least wounded once or twice and a good dose of PTSD. Not much different from any other soldier apart from they didn't receive much sympathy after the war. They were found guilty automatically by association. Stimuli generalization read SS and that is it. Logistics was the Achilles Heel of the German armed forces. They couldn't even feed their own army properly let alone inmates and POW's. The Jewish persecution was downright stupid apart from being evil all the rolling stock and administration wasted and their own forces missed out. If Hitler had been somebody like Franco the war could have ended differently. Thank the six million who ended their lives horribly but the contribution in this regard is not mentioned. Just devalorized as mere victims. 

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4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Thank the six million who ended their lives horribly but the contribution in this regard is not mentioned. Just devalorized as mere victims.

You could safely add quite a few Russians & other Soviets to that list, many of them women & children.  :mellow:

смерть фашистам!
Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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1 minute ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

You could safely add quite a few Russians & other Soviets to that list, many of them women & children

Yes 10 million Soviet civilians I estimate. But they were never called Heroes of the Soviet Union by Stalin. Mythology perpetuated this by movies describing events which never happened. 

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