28 Soldiers

[StieliAlpha]

Yesterday I watched „28 Soldiers“ on YT. A 2016 Russian movie about a „hero tale“ at the gates of Moscow in winter 1941. It seems the story was proven to be a myth, but still a pretty good movie. After a somewhat slow start, loads of action and loads of (CGI) Pz III’s and IV‘s. Quite worthwhile to watch.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

6 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

It seems the story was proven to be a myth, but still a pretty good movie.

Hey that's still more than you can say for King Leonidas! 

[dbsapp]

1 hour ago, StieliAlpha said:

Yesterday I watched „28 Soldiers“ on YT. A 2016 Russian movie about a „hero tale“ at the gates of Moscow in winter 1941. It seems the story was proven to be a myth, but still a pretty good movie. After a somewhat slow start, loads of action and loads of (CGI) Pz III’s and IV‘s. Quite worthwhile to watch.

It's one of those moments one myth is better in conveying the truth of history than documents.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

I watched this a while ago. It may be myth but they are certainly not shy about it celebrating it in Russia https://goo.gl/maps/ZHWQj2p7mFDdypCu6

MMM

[StieliAlpha]

10 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

I watched this a while ago. It may be myth but they are certainly not shy about it celebrating it in Russia https://goo.gl/maps/ZHWQj2p7mFDdypCu6

MMM

Yep, I understood that people were quite unhappy when it was proven a myth in 2015. Somewhere I read, this was why the movie was made in 2016 in the first place.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

28 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

Yep, I understood that people were quite unhappy when it was proven a myth in 2015. Somewhere I read, this was why the movie was made in 2016 in the first place.

I think I read somewhere that one of the soldiers who supposedly sacrificed himself in this heroic action not only survived but was later arrested for surrendering to the enemy!

MMM

[dbsapp]

It was not proven a myth in 2015...

In fact so-called Panfilov's 28 story deals only with relatively small episode of Panfilov's division actions and based on propaganda article that was published during the war. Not surpising at all that such article was not factually correct and was written to rise the spirit of soldiers fighting at the front line, not to be peer reviewed. 

It so happened that article gained huge pupularity and people mentioned in it were posthumously awarded Heroes medals. But after the war it turned out that some of them were still alive. That initiated official investigation in 1948 that proved that the article was not a historical research or beholder's evidence, but sort of fictional short story vaguely based on the real events.

Those documents became publicly available in 1980s. 

It is the historical fact that Panfilov's division played a major role in Moscow's defense, suffered heavy casualties and managed to slow down Wehrmacht advance, which  by all accounts is a trully heroic action. 

Time after time "sensational evidence" that 28 story is "false" emerge in mass media and produce yet another "scandal". This happened again in 2015 before the movie hit the screens. 

[StieliAlpha]

1 hour ago, dbsapp said:

It was not proven a myth in 2015...

In fact so-called Panfilov's 28 story deals only with relatively small episode of Panfilov's division actions and based on propaganda article that was published during the war. Not surpising at all that such article was not factually correct and was written to rise the spirit of soldiers fighting at the front line, not to be peer reviewed. 

It so happened that article gained huge pupularity and people mentioned in it were posthumously awarded Heroes medals. But after the war it turned out that some of them were still alive. That initiated official investigation in 1948 that proved that the article was not a historical research or beholder's evidence, but sort of fictional short story vaguely based on the real events.

Those documents became publicly available in 1980s. 

It is the historical fact that Panfilov's division played a major role in Moscow's defense, suffered heavy casualties and managed to slow down Wehrmacht advance, which  by all accounts is a trully heroic action. 

Time after time "sensational evidence" that 28 story is "false" emerge in mass media and produce yet another "scandal". This happened again in 2015 before the movie hit the screens. 

Ah, thanks for the info. I never heard that story before, so I checked yesterday only very briefly to get an understanding of what I was going to watch. Pretty good story and pretty good movie anyway.

Thinking about our conversation: It is sort of funny, that they mention the „Seven Samurai“ as an urban legend in the movie.

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

4 hours ago, dbsapp said:

It was not proven a myth in 2015...

Thanks for explaining that. 

3 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

Thinking about our conversation: It is sort of funny, that they mention the „Seven Samurai“ as an urban legend in the movie.

Russian directors have a sense of irony too, it seems. 

 

[John Kettler]

StieliAlpha,

As a war movie, it's terrific, as history, an admitted fabrication from whole cloth, according to a special military investigative commission, in a report released in 1948. The film used mostly 1/16 scale tank models, but the Panzer. IV was a full scale replica specially built for the film.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Panfilov's_28_(28_panfilovtsev)

Uncovering Fabricated Military History

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panfilov's_Twenty-Eight_Guardsmen
 

Afanasyev Report[edit]

In November 1947, the Kharkov Military Prosecutor's Office arrested Ivan Dobrobabin, a resident of the Kyrgyz town Kant, on suspicion of collaboration with the enemy.^[20] Dobrobabin told the investigators that he was one of the Panfilov Guardsmen. His claim was verified; he indeed was the same Ivan Dobrobabin who was listed as one of the dead in Dubosekovo. Dobrobabin claimed that during the clash on 16 November, he was captured by the Germans but managed to escape. He then decided to return to his native town of Perekop, in Ukraine, which was under German occupation. There, Dobrobabin joined the local Hilfspolizei and was made its chief. He was accused of participating in anti-partisan activity and of assisting the deportation of forced laborers to Germany. In 1944, when the German defeat was imminent, he fled his village and re-enlisted into the Red Army. Dobrobabin was convicted and sent to fifteen years in prison.^[21]

The Dobrobabin affair led to an official investigation of the Panfilov Guardsmen story. A military judge, Lieutenant-General Nikolai Afanasyev, supervised the process. When he interviewed Kaprov, the Colonel told him that although heavy fighting took place in Dubosekovo, the Guardsmen did not perform the deeds attributed to them by the press. When questioned, Krivitsky admitted that he made up most of the details which were published in his articles, including Klochkov's famous last words and the dying Natarov's tale – documents from the 1075th Regiment's staff later revealed that Ivan Natarov was killed two days before the battle. Ortenberg and Koroteev told the judge that their main motive was to boost the morale of the Soviet troops and therefore they published Egorov's story.^[16][22]

In addition to Kuzhubergenov, who the investigation confirmed to have been one of the Twenty-Eight, and Dobrobabin, four other surviving Guardsmen were located by the commission: Grigory Shemiakin and Illarion Vasilyev were injured severely on the 16 November incident and evacuated to hospitals; Dmitry Timofeev and Ivan Shadrin were taken prisoner but eventually repatriated to the Soviet Union. In his report, submitted to the Procurator General of the Soviet Union on 10 May 1948 and passed on to Joseph Stalin and Andrei Zhdanov, Afanasyev concluded that the Panfilov Guardsmen's last stand "did not occur. It was a pure fantasy."^[23][24][25]

Regards,

John Kettler

[chuckdyke]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:10 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Russian directors have a sense of irony too, it seems. 

Like the "Magnificent Seven". Back to the movie. Good to know no need to model two hand grenades on a rope to wind around the gun barrel after you throw it. I thought that was neat of the tank-hunter team.

Edited January 14, 2022 by chuckdyke

[StieliAlpha]

On 1/14/2022 at 3:36 AM, John Kettler said:Afanasyev concluded that the Panfilov Guardsmen's last stand "did not occur. It was a pure fantasy."^[23][24][25]

Regards,

John Kettler

Hi John, I am not sure, if @dbsapp would fully agree with you…