Question on acquire

[6plus1SMC]

 

Situation: (In a RT scenario, but I don't think that is relevant)
Immobilized tank with main gun disabled.
The tank has used all MG ammo.
I get a ammo truck up next to the tank, and dismount the crew, and moves the crew onto the truck to accuire all the 7.92 ammo, and moved the crew back into the tank. The tank, however, still shows that the MG's are out of ammo - but the rounds are on board the tank. As can be seen on the screenshot.

How come that the ammo can't be ( is not) used by the MG's on the tank?

 

Thanks in advance for any answers.

 

Best regards 

Morten 
Copenhagen   

[chuckdyke]

29 minutes ago, 6plus1SMC said:

How come that the ammo can't be ( is not) used by the MG's on the tank?

Only the crew can acquire ammo. I think the only way a tank crew can leave a tank is by bailing out. If they could dismount the story could be different. Check I think they bailed out and that could be the reason they can't acquire ammo but they did. Also you could click the spanner symbol and check what is damaged on the tank. The symbols of the two MG 42's are the two crew not the weapons itself. The main gun is damaged by default the coaxial gun could be damaged as well. Cheers your guess is as could as is mine. The way to find out is to test it. I have it in modern warfare. Crew of Stryker A have Javelins but the launcher has been taken out. They couldn't supply the Javelin team of Stryker B of their Javelins. Something which need to changed or I had a bug. PS the two symbols are probably MG34 as they were AFV MG's had to do with barrel changes I read somewhere. But they shot the same ammo. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by chuckdyke

[6plus1SMC]

Thank you Chuckdyke

Oh the MGs worked and was working hard, that's why they ran out og ammo

/Morten

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, 6plus1SMC said:

Oh the MGs worked and was working hard, that's why they ran out og ammo

Their morale could play a role too. Commander is killed they are rattled (the next state is shaken) and just don't have enough fighting spirit left. It makes me think they got MG42 belt ammo from the truck while their MG34 could be magazine fed in an AFG. A little like a Revolver chambered for .45 ACP to load it you had to use half moon clips If you had a spare ammo in 1911 magazines they would be useless. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by chuckdyke

[Sgt.Squarehead]

If I had to guess, I'd suspect this is a deliberate design decision to prevent borderline instant battlefield resupply of tanks.....Otherwise a cheaty player might buy a couple of Kingtigers and a bunch of PAK-43s, then dismount all the guns turning them into ammo dumps etc. etc.

[chuckdyke]

2 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

dismount all the guns turning them into ammo dumps etc. etc.

That is the reason you can only abandon guns? It is buggy during a barrage it is natural to find shelter temporarily. But you can't do it in CM.

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

That is the reason you can only abandon guns? It is buggy during a barrage it is natural to find shelter temporarily. But you can't do it in CM.

TBH I was referring to tricks that may only be possible in the editor.....I have no idea whether purchasing dismounted guns as ammo dumps is even possible in a QB.

I actually don't spend a lot of time playing unless I'm testing for myself or others.  While I will openly admit to trying to break scenarios during that process, I don't do it by editor meddling.....I usually just opt for doing something insane, like driving straight up the main road at full speed with all guns blazing (Ask @MOS:96B2P sometime)! 

[chuckdyke]

5 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

like driving straight up the main road at full speed

It is a lot better than driving a jeep on hunt. I know what he means it is frustrating that common sense can't be applied in some situations. Crews dismounting temporarily to find shelter should be possible. Some battles have nutty AI decisions and you miss a human player. Had two T34/85 driving right in front of three Tigers and two Panthers. I realize now the bigger the map the more difficult to design triggers for the AI. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

11 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

I realize now the bigger the map the more difficult to design triggers for the AI.

Triggers are hugely hit & miss.....I often find good old fashioned timing can do things more reliably.   However used in the right way (ask @MOS:96B2P once again) they can be utterly invaluable.

The AI will blunder around like a fekkin idiot no matter how carefully you script your orders.....Initial placement of units can be equally important.  You would not believe the hassle I've had getting three tanks to drive up a two-lane highway in an elegant & orderly fashion! 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[chuckdyke]

4 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The AI will blunder around like a fekkin idiot no matter how carefully you script your orders

Like putting snipers on a balcony, I will be for ever grateful for that tip of you two. We can play some scenarios more realistically now. Would it be possible to introduce subterranean scenarios. Before the pandemic I spent some time in Seoul and to see the subterranean infrastructure of that city is unbelievable. Really could have been constructed with the crazy antics in mind of their northern neighbour. The streets are quiet but down below shopping arcades entertainment areas all linked by a subway system. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

Would it be possible to introduce subterranean scenarios.

@Aquila-SmartWargames made something along those lines IIRC.

It's technically possible to give a vague impression of 'Rattenkrieg' using the current CM mapping tools, by grouping buildings in clusters and then raising the surrounding terrain to create mounds of rubble burying the lower floors.....However it's a lot of work, there is only so much inter-connection that is possible without some kind of modding trickery (no tunnels under streets etc.) and direct access from the outside to what 'looks' like the ground level of these buildings is impossible.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Erwin]

5 hours ago, 6plus1SMC said:

How come that the ammo can't be ( is not) used by the MG's on the tank?

One cannot resupply an AFV with ammo.  (Only leg units can be resupplied.)

[chuckdyke]

12 minutes ago, Erwin said:

One cannot resupply an AFV with ammo.  (Only leg units can be resupplied.)

You are right the ammo from the truck is not in the tank's inventory the crew just got the ammo. But he still has only AP and HE under Ammo

Here at the start of a battle the MG's ammo is listed under ammo. 

[Sgt Joch]

Only infantry units can use the ACQUIRE command to replenish ammo. This is clearly stated in the game manual.

As to why Tanks and AFVs cannot replenish ammo during a game, official reason is that this is typically outside the scope of CM. Normally tanks low on ammo would go to the rear and take new ammo which could take several hours.

[6plus1SMC]

Thank you Erwin for clearing that up!

And Sgt Joch: as I read the manual now I see it says "infantry".

And I understand that reloading of heavy ammo IS time-consuming. Also, BTW, taking 7.92 out of belts and putting the cartridges into another carrier (or vice versa) is done but take time, I have done that IRL.

Thank you all for answers and a lifely discussion!

 

Best regards

Morten

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

One cannot resupply an AFV with ammo.  (Only leg units can be resupplied.)

 

1 hour ago, Sgt Joch said:

Only infantry units can use the ACQUIRE command to replenish ammo. This is clearly stated in the game manual.

As to why Tanks and AFVs cannot replenish ammo during a game, official reason is that this is typically outside the scope of CM. Normally tanks low on ammo would go to the rear and take new ammo which could take several hours.