Hunt/Move Command and Taking Fire

[Simcoe]

It is starting to get very annoying seeing my infantry casually stroll(hunt/move command) on while MG42 is zipping over their heads.

Is it intentional to not have infantry immediately duck for cover while moving/hunting or is it a bug?

I understand it from a game perspective. There is a tradeoff for hunting continuously compared to taking spotting breaks but it's immersion breaking.

Does anyone think gameplay would suffer if troops would immediately duck and cover when taking fire if they are using move/hunt command?

I'm fine with their behavior when using the quick/fast command.

[ZPB II]

What experience level infantry?

I've been having opposite experiences, cursing at my low experience troops hitting the ground and stopping hunting when a stray round passes by.

[fireship4]

I understood "move" was supposed to allow infantry to be more likely to stop if under fire, but it seems they just transition to "quick".

[Erwin]

Units ordered to HUNT will generally halt when they see an enemy in their covered arc, or are fired at.

MOVE is designed for movement over long distances that are safe from enemy fire.  One should not be using MOVE when contact is imminent.   QUICK order will allow a unit to use its own initiative to stop and return fire.  Eg:  An AT team may stop and fire at a tank, and then carry on to the next waypoint.  FAST will make a unit run and disregard any enemy.

Of course a unit may stop and cower any time it is fired at.

 

[fireship4]

Here's what's in the manual:

Quote

MOVE

Infantry - This is the standard “move from A to B” command usually used in situa-
tions where enemy contact is not expected or is unlikely. It is fairly slow, but it
maintains unit cohesion, pretty good all-round awareness (but no anticipation of
imminent contact), and is not tiring to infantry. Usually units that come under fire
while executing a Move Command stop or change their movement order and
take evasive action, and there is a high chance that they will return fire and look
for cover.

Example - use Move to change floors in a friendly occupied and previously cleared
building when speed is not important. Use Move to drive down a road not ex-
pecting enemy contact.

QUICK

Infantry - soldiers move at a jog. This movement type slightly emphasizes speed
over cover, cohesion and awareness, but is not a full-out run. It may lead to some
bunching up, as it’s more difficult for soldiers to remain in formation. More tiring
than Move but still sustainable for longer periods, at least for fit soldiers.

Example - this command is best used to shift positions quickly when speed is im-
portant but when the area to move through is covered and not under immediate
enemy view and fire

FAST

Infantry - Fast Movement maximizes speed to get from one place to another at the
cost of fatigue, and also decreases awareness and spotting ability, especially to
the sides and rear (relative to the unit’s movement direction). Fast makes the
unit less likely to return fire or to stop or change its movement direction and
objective. Keep in mind that this means that a soldier running FAST will NOT
stop to reload, either.

Example - se Fast to have a squad sprint across an open road from one building to
another, making sure that they do not slow down to return fire. Use Fast to cross
a stretch of open ground with a vehicle in order to reduce the time of exposure
to enemy tanks.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by fireship4

[Simcoe]

These are veteran troops in the Final Blitzkrieg training campaign. 

If only my infantry acted as the manual says. I have my units on hunt and bullets are flying passed their face and they still move forward until one of their buddies is killed. 

I was just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

[sawomi]

 

[Bozowans]

Infantry using the hunt command used to duck down instantly upon taking fire in previous versions of the game engine. It got removed for some reason. I don't know if it's a bug or intentional. Now, infantry getting shot at will keep moving until they get a confirmed spot on an enemy or their suppression meter goes up enough to make them duck down (often because they end up taking casualties from refusing to duck down). I'm not sure how long it's been like this now. Years?

It worked better before IMO. Before, infantry were very sensitive and might duck down even when they're not getting shot at, like if an explosion went off 100m away or something. If a single bullet flew over their heads they would duck down. It made the hunt command useful for slowly creeping forward without taking too many casualties. Players would use it like a "move to contact" command.

Perhaps they changed it because they thought it was too sensitive. Perhaps they changed it so that "hunt" means more like what it says - the soldiers are actively seeking out and hunting the enemy in a more aggressive manner without being too overly concerned about incoming fire.  

On the other hand, the normal move command has always worked the same way as far as I know. Infantry will walk forward, and if they get shot at, they will eventually start breaking out into a run unless their suppression meter gets so high that they get pinned. Only then will they duck down.

[Codreanu]

16 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

If only my infantry acted as the manual says. I have my units on hunt and bullets are flying passed their face and they still move forward until one of their buddies is killed. 

I was just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

I don't think units on Hunt will stop unless they see the enemy or get some sort of visual or sound contact, and I'm pretty sure gunfire doesn't give you sound contacts at all which is stupid. Most of the time you're better off with doing 30 or 60 meters on Quick, pausing for 10 or 15 seconds, and continuing with another 30 or 60 meters on Quick. If you're trying to advance you're really better off doing it like that with bounding movements so if one of your units is taking fire there is another stationary unit ready to return fire instantly.

[chuckdyke]

7 minutes ago, Bozowans said:

Perhaps they changed it so that "hunt" means more like what it says

Correct I use hunt when I have a solid sound contact. Hunt to move up to 12 squares to a firing position or observation post move from concealment. Slow, Fast Quick and Hunt tire you down. Just up to 4 squares for Slow and Fast, 12 squares for Quik and Hunt.

[Simcoe]

Thank you Bozowans, Codreanu, chuckdyke for your answers! Interesting that it used to be more sensitive.

If the hunt command won't drop your soldiers without a confirmed spot or getting pinned/hit it sounds like you need to hunt in a group. Maybe 3 groups of 3 or less and moving in a line. This way the other teams can make the spot and kill the enemy.

This is compared to sending a single team and waiting for them to get shot at, drop down and run your forces forward to return fire.

Do you do the same or different?

I really appreciate the responses.

[Sgt Joch]

This very same topic came up last year and based on tests I did, troops will go prone within a few seconds of being fired on or as soon as 1-2 bursts come close by whether or not they take a casualty or spot an enemy, so it works fine on the whole. 

[Zveroboy1]

Without arguing whether the current or the older mechanism was better, it is worth pointing out for the sake of clarity that they don't need to get hit or pinned; only a sliver on the suppression meter is enough.

[chuckdyke]

8 hours ago, Simcoe said:

Do you do the same or different?

It is best used I think as a movement to contact. Like entering a building. I use it also when operating in a forest. 

[Sgt Joch]

Personally, I rarely use HUNT for infantry outside of buildings, except in very specific situation. The troops are easier to spot and target on HUNT as you can see when you are playing the other side. I prefer to use a QUICK order over a short hop, 25-50 meters, with a HIDE order at the end, so they are up and into their new position in under 30 seconds. If any enemy unit fires on them, there is a very good chance they will miss and I have other units on overwatch to spot where the enemy fire comes from.

[Artkin]

On 9/13/2021 at 3:18 PM, fireship4 said:

I understood "move" was supposed to allow infantry to be more likely to stop if under fire, but it seems they just transition to "quick".

This is one the most boggling things in CM. Its essentially impossible to advance without taking casualties unless you sprint to a piece of cover before your enemy can see/shoot you

[chuckdyke]

46 minutes ago, Artkin said:

This is one the most boggling things in CM. Its essentially impossible to advance without taking casualties unless you sprint to a piece of cover before your enemy can see/shoot you

It is called attrition warfare. My tip 10 seconds to move from cover to cover. If you're lucky you may spot something shooting at your units. 

[chuckdyke]

Experience is the best teacher understanding the control panel. 

[chuckdyke]

On 9/14/2021 at 2:31 AM, Simcoe said:

It is starting to get very annoying seeing my infantry casually stroll(hunt/move command) on while MG42 is zipping over their heads.

Hunt is obviously the wrong move. Hunt is to move to contact (Full Contact). The AI at times takes ten seconds to react to their full contact. DZ stands for Danger Zone. You have linear DZ and open DZ avoid them and if you cross do it ASAP. 

[Artkin]

I definitely would never use "Hunt" to move toward enemies unless they were moving along cover originally. The absolute last thing I want is for my guys to stop in the open while theyre getting torn to pieces. 

[Erwin]

Generally, a series of QUICK moves for about 10 meters each followed by a waypoint with a 5 second PAUSE and HIDE command is effective for keeping the guys alive longer.  The HIDE command is often enuff to have the enemy Tac AI lose LOS and after a few seconds the Tac AI "forgets" about those units and has to reacquire them all over again.

Obviously, not as effective a tactic when playing H2H.

[KGBoy]

On 9/14/2021 at 7:08 AM, Sgt Joch said:

Personally, I rarely use HUNT for infantry outside of buildings, except in very specific situation. The troops are easier to spot and target on HUNT as you can see when you are playing the other side. I prefer to use a QUICK order over a short hop, 25-50 meters, with a HIDE order at the end, so they are up and into their new position in under 30 seconds. If any enemy unit fires on them, there is a very good chance they will miss and I have other units on overwatch to spot where the enemy fire comes from.

You would have to shorten the distance considerable for hunting in woods, I can only think?  As costly as it is in time and inevitable death --- HUNT is the only way forward( in woods) without relying heavily on chance to clear the area. They go to pixel heaven in droves regardless, but at least I don't own all the blame.

Further: How would one cross a long field with Bocage looming at the end?

I have come to an interchange of HUNT and QUICK in different patterns at the squad level. Vary the PAUSE and you get some spotting, some hunting, some running. 

[chuckdyke]

17 minutes ago, KGBoy said:

Further: How would one cross a long field with Bocage looming at the end?

Infantry at the base, Sherman at 6 o'clock now position two .30 MG's. Plot oblique fire across the field. Advance infantry 'Road to Montebourg is an excellent campaign to practice this. 

[Bulletpoint]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:41 AM, Sgt Joch said:

This very same topic came up last year and based on tests I did, troops will go prone within a few seconds of being fired on or as soon as 1-2 bursts come close by whether or not they take a casualty or spot an enemy, so it works fine on the whole. 

They don't go prone though.

I have several savegames showing troops will continue to hunt for over a minute while a sniper takes potshots at them. I sent these savegames to a beta tester as part of what I considered a bug report (as the HUNT command doesn't work as it says in the manual).

[Sgt Joch]

13 hours ago, KGBoy said:

You would have to shorten the distance considerable for hunting in woods, I can only think?  As costly as it is in time and inevitable death --- HUNT is the only way forward( in woods) without relying heavily on chance to clear the area. They go to pixel heaven in droves regardless, but at least I don't own all the blame.

Further: How would one cross a long field with Bocage looming at the end?

I have come to an interchange of HUNT and QUICK in different patterns at the squad level. Vary the PAUSE and you get some spotting, some hunting, some running. 

Obviously your tactics always have to be adapted to the terrain.