Light Snow Ground condition

[skelley]

My first CMFB game and my first game in snow and I love it....One problem though. In light snow ground conditions I set my infantry to hunt over a distance of 300 meters and after 200 yards they were tired. I am almost 50 years old and I can walk through a couple of inches of snow for a thousand meters with and not be tired. I would think that 18 year olds could handle 200 meters with ease.

[chuckdyke]

3 hours ago, skelley said:

Hunt over a distance of 300 meters and after 200 yards they were tired.

Not physically tired but not fit to do meaningful spotting. That is the way I see it, it is similar to shooting. You feel fit but a lack of oxygen affects your eyesight. Marksmanship in the game is also poor. Elite snipers need six shots to take out a Panzerschreck team for example. Welcome to Combat Mission it is a game which can't get real life condition 100% perfect. The Hunt Command is moving to contact and to engage not always for scouting. 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

5 hours ago, skelley said:

My first CMFB game and my first game in snow and I love it....One problem though. In light snow ground conditions I set my infantry to hunt over a distance of 300 meters and after 200 yards they were tired. I am almost 50 years old and I can walk through a couple of inches of snow for a thousand meters with and not be tired. I would think that 18 year olds could handle 200 meters with ease.

What was the temperature? If it was cold or freezing then that would affect the rate at which they fatigue. Also their fitness levels will factor in too, but I can't imagine the US troops are unfit.

Plus the hunt command tires troops quickly as they are moving slowly on maximum alertness expecting contact any second so they have to have their wits about them.

MMM

Edited August 27, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[skelley]

Temperature is cold. I know hunt command wears down troops a little but this seems a bit off. It seems like the assault command doesn't wear them out as fast.

[chuckdyke]

2 minutes ago, skelley said:

emperature is cold. I know hunt command wears down troops a little but this seems a bit off. It seems like the assault command doesn't wear them out as fast.

You compared it with you walking. In assault they are bounding. In CM words often means something different. During the Hunt Command spotting ability goes down faster, I think. I don't think letting troops hunt for two hundred meters is necessary. They won't stop when they receive fire only when there is a full contact and infantry only spots armour not hidden or concealed positions. 

[Erwin]

The way units act during HUNT may have changed during the many updates and patches.  However, when CM2 first came out it seemed that HUNT was "Moving carefully, looking for the enemy, halt when fired upon, (or fire is nearby), or if an enemy is spotted".

That careful nature of the HUNT movement (vs the MOVE command) explains why HUNTis so slow and exhausting. 

In terms of the game, I find it most practical to use QUICK for 10-12 meters, then place a waypoInt with a few seconds PAUSE then a short HUNT, then QUICK.  A HIDE command can also help the scout stay alive.  On some maps if time is an issue and one needs to move hastily with no time to HUNT carefully, one may have to dispense with HUNT, and simply move a two-man team in busts of 10-20 meters plus a waypoint with a 5 second PAUSE and a HIDE command.  

 

[Warts 'n' all]

@skelley I would suggest that you go to your local park in street wear. Walk straight ahead for 200 metres and time yourself. Then do the same thing again in boots and carrying some heavy objects (rifle, hand grenades, ammo pouches, entrenching tool are optional), whilst all the time looking to the left, right, and rear, and without making a sound. Not only will it take much longer, it will also be much more knackering.

In the meantime I'm off to celebrate the 27th with some Prez.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

2 hours ago, skelley said:

Temperature is cold. I know hunt command wears down troops a little but this seems a bit off. It seems like the assault command doesn't wear them out as fast.

The cold will be having an effect then, would be even worse if it was freezing.

I can't remember where I read it but I do seem to remember that the only movement command that tires the pixeltruppen out faster is SLOW, but I may be mistaken. I tend to only use it when coming to the crest of a hill/ridge (HUNT to just below the crest and then crawl to the top), in close terrain like forest or when I'm absolutely expecting contact. If I have to HUNT over that kind of distance then I put listening stops in so they can rest and have a look around, seems to keep them getting too knackered.

MMM

Edited August 27, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

And were they in "Rested" state before you set them off? If they weren't then that could explain why they reached "Tired" by the waypoint.

MMM

[MikeyD]

I conducted a little test awhile ago tracking fatigue rates with ground cover and weather. Its too far in the past to recall the details but basically you could 'hunt' your infantry almost forever (600m+?) on a cool dry day over grass. Through snow on a very cold day they would become fatigued almost immediately, even worst than sending them out in extreme heat.

[skelley]

1 hour ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

And were they in "Rested" state before you set them off? If they weren't then that could explain why they reached "Tired" by the waypoint.

MMM

Yes. First move of the game. I did assault command for about 200m and the fatigue level only went to ready. Generally I use hunt up until contact then switch to assault but with them being tired by the time of contact, I have to let them rest for 2-4 minutes before assaulting.

[Erwin]

2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

basically you could 'hunt' your infantry almost forever (600m+?) on a cool dry day over grass.

Maybe downhill?  I find HUNT without any halts can tire out units fairly quickly even in good weather.  

[danfrodo]

I think assault might not tire out units that are not under fire.  When they come under fire during assault I believe they sprint.  Of course, I believe a lot of false things, so be sure to test this one out

[Erwin]

I know that years ago someone did tests on movement and posted them.  I have a bunch of data for vehicle movement but can't find the one for leg movement. 

 

[StieliAlpha]

On 8/27/2021 at 4:36 AM, skelley said:

My first CMFB game and my first game in snow and I love it....One problem though. In light snow ground conditions I set my infantry to hunt over a distance of 300 meters and after 200 yards they were tired. I am almost 50 years old and I can walk through a couple of inches of snow for a thousand meters with and not be tired. I would think that 18 year olds could handle 200 meters with ease.

As others mentioned already the „hunt“ command is not „walking“ and it does in general increase fatigue quite fast, not only in snowy conditions. 200m is a long distant for a hunt command in CM, you will see that in other scenarios and conditions soon.

As far as tactics are concerned: You did not describe the situation, but I assume, you tried to move your „front line troops“ 200m forward into unknown terrain. That‘s not a good idea. The same is true, if you want, e.g., to clear a forest which you by-passed earlier. I usually let a scout team sprint forward about 30m, let the rest and watch a minute and then bring the rest of the squad forward. Preferably not into the same place as the scouts. Just in case somebody plans evil things with a mortar and waits for more targets…