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Combat Mission Professional


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1 hour ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

I....but.....just...*sigh*

It's what happens when you blow a hole in a wall. Notice how troops don't enter through the actual hole, but through the right side of the wall where the door usually is. It's just a wall texture change plus changing the parameter to make the wall enterable. The code is already able to handle this just fine.

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5 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

It's just a wall texture change plus changing the parameter to make the wall enterable. The code is already able to handle this just fine.

This is an assumption, unless you have knowledge of the codebase, and pretty intimate knowledge at that, you can't say for certain that this is the case. It might be the case, but you don't know that.

Which was the point I was making in the first place. Anyway I'll get off this high horse for now to stop the thread being derailed any further :)

MMM

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7 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

This is an assumption, unless you have knowledge of the codebase, and pretty intimate knowledge at that, you can't say for certain that this is the case. It might be the case, but you don't know that.

We completely agree that it's an assumption. I thought it was implicit that of course I haven't seen the code base. When I wrote "It would be easy to", I meant "I believe it would be easy to". Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.

I think the actual reason we can't enter windows in this game is a gameplay decision. If we could enter any window, then many of the more challenging city fighting situations would be made less challenging. It would prevent many of the funnels and kill zones unless the map designer made some really odd looking towns where most of the ground floors were bricked up for no apparent reason...

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2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I think the actual reason we can't enter windows in this game is a gameplay decision. If we could enter any window, then many of the more challenging city fighting situations would be made less challenging. It would prevent many of the funnels and kill zones unless the map designer made some really odd looking towns where most of the ground floors were bricked up for no apparent reason...

It would seem to me that you could add a second type of window that was enterable while keeping the standard ones unenterable.

So like:

Windows: Can be fired out of but not entered

Doors: Can't be fired out of but can be entered
New Window: Can be fired out of and can be entered

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5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I never said it would be free or instantaneous to do. But probably easy (=not a lot of work compared to other changes) since the basic code for a wall with doors is already in the game

No what you said was:

5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

And if I had 1 dollar for every time I hear people assume something is probably too difficult to do, so why bother... :)

Which I simply pointed out is not what any of us mean. OK I cannot speak for anyone else but I'm fairly sure - it's not what I mean. :)

 

5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

They'd just need to change the bit "wall_is_enterable" from 0 to 1 for all the wall objects that contain at least one window.

and there ya go again.

The thing is they have this working in the Pro version. I have never seen it so I don't know if moving it to the User version would be considered a code port of if there is some aspect of it that they don't think is quite right and it needs more work. No one here knows and assuming something is as easy as a on char change is just setting your self up for disappointment.

Steve and Charles know what they are doing and they have a track record of doing thing well and right. Just saying - that's a cool feature I've always wanted that can we get it in the User version - is more than enough. Getting your self twisted around about how easy it is or isn't is just, well, silly.

Enough said by me.

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I recall a poster a few year ago relating a story about his urban warfare training. Something along the lines of the instructor saying 'You're now going to learn how to enter a building through a window. NEVER do this in combat.' If I recall the conversation correctly there was some concern about accidentally shooting yourself or a comrade while scrambling through the window, not to mention the risk of being shot by someone in the building while you're halfway through the window.

If you look close in CMSF2 you'll see a number of natural impediments to entering through a window. ^_^

 

bars on windows.jpg

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

They were not yer average squaddie.

Neither when you play SF2 compare the hostages with conscripts in CM. Without them you don't know the location of the enemy. The police who commence the engagement. Princes Gate by police negotiations in a CM a firefight. Once you have your intel you move in with your elite. The principle is the same. 

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1 hour ago, Simcoe said:

Image

I would kill for some of these features!

If we had full mission replay I think half of my gametime would be just looking back at old battles.

This chart came up two pages ago and @BFCElvisalready stated that it wasn't accurate. But yes, I would be very interested in full mission replays. But I understand the reasoning for why they aren't included (monstrously huge file sizes)

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Read a book on the battle of Hue, 1968 recently. Marines never went in through windows or outside doors since they assumed, usually correctly, that: 1) they were mined/booby-trapped; and 2) that enemy troops had weapons targeting the opening just waiting for someone to poke his head through. What they did is create their own "doors" by blasting through walls.

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On 9/9/2021 at 3:18 PM, Bulletpoint said:

And if I had 1 dollar for every time I hear people assume something is probably too difficult to do, so why bother... :)

And I'd like 100 dollars for every time I hear people say something is easy, without having specific knowledge of what actually needs to be done. It's something I encounter quite often.

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6 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

Read a book on the battle of Hue, 1968 recently. Marines never went in through windows or outside doors since they assumed, usually correctly, that: 1) they were mined/booby-trapped; and 2) that enemy troops had weapons targeting the opening just waiting for someone to poke his head through. What they did is create their own "doors" by blasting through walls.

One of the things we are missing from CM is the ability to blast "doors" rather than removing entire walls.

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14 hours ago, Lethaface said:

And I'd like 100 dollars for every time I hear people say something is easy, without having specific knowledge of what actually needs to be done. It's something I encounter quite often.

I meant that it would be comparatively easier too repurpose existing code compared to writing new code to add completely new functionality.

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14 hours ago, Pelican Pal said:

blast "doors"

Doors are not locked in CM, so a 15 second area fire before entering usually solves the problem. 

By the way I thought you couldn't do this.

surrender.jpg

surrenderb.jpg

One way to deal with the 'Human Shield' tactics. No white flag means enemy units are still nearby. Seems to be true but I don't know for sure. 

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41 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Explosives effect units of either side, including those who are surrendering.

Got caught a few times so by coincidence some area fire. If the white flag doesn't show inside a couple of minutes the area is still covered by enemy forces. Did anybody test this? You could lose some points but it should be possible to shoot prisoners. Or get a bonus if you capture some.  It is funny they take out a leader and 10 seconds later their arms go up. It is a political correct game. 

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27 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

If the white flag doesn't show inside a couple of minutes the area is still covered by enemy forces. Did anybody test this?

I haven't tested it, but I strongly suspect something like that is the case.....While testing 'Coup' for @MOS:96B2P I captured a pair of enemy soldiers who adamantly refused to wave the white flag for countless turns (somewhere between 15 & 30 at a guess). 

BZPtxAM.jpg

Given the ongoing events in the scenario at that time, things ended rather badly for them, I think we used grenades (or possibly a tank, come to think of it)!  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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10 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I haven't tested it, but I strongly suspect something like that is the case.

*SPOILERS* In SF2 don't go inside buildings to capture surrendering Syrians. Breaking the Bank and Cain and Abel it is a time waster and it cost you units. They can return to their own units. In modern warfare the APC is expendable if you look only at Dollars and Cents the APC is cheaper to produce than training an Elite Trooper. Besides human losses affects morale. This is what makes modern warfare different Time is limited and body bags are the parameters your efforts are judged by. 

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14 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I meant that it would be comparatively easier too repurpose existing code compared to writing new code to add completely new functionality.

That doesn't really mean anything with regard to how much effort ((opportunity) time and or costs) it would involve to market. While calling something 'easy' usually does create certain expectations among certain stakeholders which than have to be managed. 

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46 minutes ago, Pelican Pal said:

What I mean is that you cannot blow a man sized hole into a wall. You have to blow up the entire wall.

Buildings are generic. Only one room on each floor. Units can't enter through windows. Units can't make snipers positions always expose at the windows. We even can't make troops observe through a window if there is a balcony. I really don't enjoy MOUT operations as your TacAI throws common sense out of the window. PS if you make enemy units surrender you can't give them movement orders. You must expose yourself first to enemy units in the next building. *Spoiler* for Breaking the Bank. 

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