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Which WWII Tank Would You Fight In?


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Paddy puts down his copy of The Sporting Post and rolls his eyes in disbelief.

"Mr, Jorrocks Sir. will yer'se listen to these 'ere gob****es. Everyone know'se when it come ter tanks yer just can't beat beat the AEC 8-wheeler. Will yer'se not agree?"

"Give me another G 'n' T, Patrick, and I'll agree with everything you say right enough."

 

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12 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

"Mr, Jorrocks Sir. will yer'se listen to these 'ere gob****es.

Us Yanks are having a hard time followin' ya Warty.  Even me, a transplanted Brit.  I've only been in the USA fer almost 50 years and I still can't make heads or tails of it.

So would your plan be to drive around in a Guinness truck and no one, from either side mind you, would dare shoot at you because their buddies murder 'em if they did?

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The idea of going into battle in a truck that didn't exist during WW2 would be a tad silly old chap, if you don't mind me saying so. Almost as daft as believing that my granddad runs a pub in heaven where his only customer is Brian Horrocks.

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Sherman for medium. Not the heaviest armor, but still pretty good frontal armor. Good optics for the time, good attention paid to ergonomics. And of course the crew survivability is outstanding for the time, what with there being a hatch for every crewman making it easy to escape quickly. And even the 75mm gun performance is more than adequate against most enemy armor, only really struggling against the heavier Tigers and Panthers. Plus going for an Allied tank greatly increases my overall survivability simply on the grounds that the Germans are getting pretty heavily mauled by the timeframe of most of the current Combat Mission games (less likely to die in an off-map air attack, more friendly tanks around to take the hits (if I was in a German tank I might be the only tank on the map), etc...).

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Quantity is a quality in its own right. Sherman 76 mm and T34/85 in the latter part of WW2. Single German Cat? attack it with a platoon. Against the AI it is easy, had three T34/85 against two Tiger1 in a recent game. Lost one T34 and the AI lost the two Tigers. Against a human player it would be different. 

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On 7/7/2021 at 11:12 AM, Probus said:

Why are you folks picking the Stuart over the Hellcat? @Erwin  @E5K

A few years ago a couple of guys had an M18 Hellcat (they collected old military equipment) They restored it and and had a range to fire the cannon, One day they were firing the cannon and it blew up. and killed them both.  At least in a Stuart you might live if the gun blows up, well maybe not the guy loading but I will always take a Stuart over anything. It was the best tank ever.

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48 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Quantity is a quality in its own right. Sherman 76 mm and T34/85 in the latter part of WW2. Single German Cat? attack it with a platoon. Against the AI it is easy, had three T34/85 against two Tiger1 in a recent game. Lost one T34 and the AI lost the two Tigers. Against a human player it would be different. 

"Quantity is quality" I've always said that too. You are are so right. A lot of Shermans and T-34's got destroyed but in the end they prevailed. Like the elephant that got ate up by ants.  I like this thread. A lot of good stuff .

Edited by J Bennett
typo fix
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1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

If you swim alone with a shark nearby it could be dangerous. If you're in the water among another one hundred people, the odds are 1%.

Actually much lower. Never swim alone in the ocean rule #1!!!

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2 hours ago, J Bennett said:

A lot of Shermans and T-34's got destroyed but in the end they prevailed.

That certainly was the "big" picture.  The caveat is that a whole lot of those crews were killed.  So are those really the tanks you personally would want to be in?  

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4 hours ago, Erwin said:

That certainly was the "big" picture.  The caveat is that a whole lot of those crews were killed.  So are those really the tanks you personally would want to be in?  

I can't speak for the T-34, but Sherman crews actually had very good survivability in terms of crew casualties per Sherman knocked out (everyone can get out quickly because almost everyone has their own easy to reach hatch). Not to mention that if you are in a German tank the odds of your tank getting knocked out are actually much higher since there are far fewer German tanks around.

Yeah if I happen to be in a one on one engagement between a Sherman and a Panther I would much rather be in the Panther. But how likely is that to happen anyway? On the rare occasions where a Tiger or Panther are encountered it will be a full platoon vs 1 cat. If you are in the cat your odds of being knocked out are almost 100%, but if you are in one of the Shermans then the odds of your tank getting knocked out might be closer to 40% or 60%.

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It still means that if 4 out of 5 Shermans are KO'd for one cat, the odds of being an Allied casualty seem higher.  It would be interesting to see data for survivability for each type of tank.  That must exist someplace (maybe censored?).

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On 7/10/2021 at 6:53 AM, chuckdyke said:

 

Quantity is a quality in its own right.

 

That is totally true. The twist to this question is "not in RL but in Combat Mission". 

So if you were to play a scenario in CM where the scenario point balance is equal, which tank would you choose to be in?  That would include Firepower, Armor, Mobility, (and survivability) as modelled in CM. If you pick a 500 pt tank, your opponent would get 500 pts also. Rarity factored in.

What got me thinking about this was what if we made a campaign where you, as a commander, were represented in the game with your own pixeltroopen. In that case, which tank would you choose to command in (assuming game over if you get clobbered. Your backup commander takes over). 

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6 hours ago, Probus said:

If you pick a 500 pt tank

I would select the Easy Eight 76 mm Sherman. TBH, I don't know what I can buy for 500 pt. I rate it the highest as I can use it as a FiST vehicle in WW2 and the gun is capable of taking out any German vehicle apart from the front. It is mobile and you lose the tank but get out of it shaken. 

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Once you get past like 1943 the up-gunning is winning the armor battles to the point where getting hit at all is pretty bad for your health and things like fire control, range finding, accuracy, etc. begin to take primacy. I think it was in one of Glantz's books where he stated by that year the T34 was getting penetrated something like 90% of the time at ordinary ranges whereas earlier in the war it was more like 30%, then 50%. So if it's late war my choice would be one of the American tank destroyers, as the doctrine was typically fire support & counter-attacking instead of head on mano y mano. The M18 also looks sexy, if we're going by which metal coffin is most aesthetic.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Khalerick said:

The M18 also looks sexy, if we're going by which metal coffin is most aesthetic.

😂 That would make a great follow up question @Khalerick!  I've always been partial to the Panther's sexy profile. Where as the French Renault FT-17 just screamed "Kill me"!

I think I'll start a new thread with that question. 

BTW, when I was looking up the exact name of the FT tank, I ran across this cool web page:

https://www.redbubble.com/i/tote-bag/French-Tanks-of-ww2-by-TheCollectioner/26629173.MLCYP

image.thumb.jpeg.fe130c055da4711c06da15acf629f2b2.jpeg

I think I'll get that tote bag for my wife for her new handbag! 🤣

Edited by Probus
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