DMS Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 On 6/24/2021 at 4:38 PM, Erwin said: Worse even... Under Stalin individual farming was outlawed and all food was the property of the state. It was the only major product he could sell for export to get the money to industrialize the USSR. As "Bloodlands" describes in gruesome detail, this led to many millions of Ukrainians being deliberately killed off due to dying of starvation. That was in addition to the millions executed or dying while deported. Over 10 million were killed in this way in the 20's and 30's b4 Hitler got competitive. You are nicely roleplaying German officer, talking to local peasants! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Am confused re your point. This is history. It's highly recommended to read the book "Bloodlands" and its references. It's actually very readable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 7 hours ago, Erwin said: Am confused re your point. This is history. It's highly recommended to read the book "Bloodlands" and its references. It's actually very readable. If you genuinely want to dig this topic I would recommend to read Oleg Khlevniuk or Sheila Fitzpatrick . The issue of 30s and Stalin's period is a minefield, obscured by politicization of all sorts. The true story of famine in Ukraine is also very much distorted by political interests. You can start by reading this article (initially free but then moved by Guardian under paywall - how many paywalled Guardian articles have you seen?), but still available in Google cash. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 "Intentional starvation by bolshevik government" is a conspiracy theory. It can't be proved, it can't be disproved. By the way, NKVD investigators did the same, they used any mistake or negligence to blame a person as spy and saboteur. It's fun that anti communists use same logic as NKVD. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, DMS said: "Intentional starvation by bolshevik government" is a conspiracy theory. It can't be proved, it can't be disproved. By the way, NKVD investigators did the same, they used any mistake or negligence to blame a person as spy and saboteur. It's fun that anti communists use same logic as NKVD. It depends on what you mean by "intentional". They didn't want to deliberately starve people to death, but their neglect, inhumane policy and low level of understading of ecomonics, coupled with crazed communist theories, resulted in de fact horrible deaths of millions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Now they have Vladimir Putin ends well all is well. They are great chess players, good in ballet and some tremendous singers. Like a drink and a good joke. Apart from the ballet the same can be said about the US. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 hours ago, dbsapp said: They didn't want to deliberately starve people to death, but their neglect, inhumane policy and low level of understading of ecomonics, coupled with crazed communist theories, resulted in de fact horrible deaths of millions. Some people think that they did want. Forced preparation to world war. Build plants or get smashed by Germany (or England with Polish satellites). To build plants you need to free working hands in villages, creating modern agriculture industry. But individual farmers din't want to, resisted, sabotaged the process. This a bit more complex than just "idiots with stupid theories made brutal experiments". No one gave a chance to peacefully and slowly build an ideal state. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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