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WITE-2: thoughts and opinions?


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For those of you who have nothing to say about WITE2, GG series, or Games ... please withdraw from my thread and take it outside (John I am asking for you not to lock the thread but just do some admin stuff).

This happened to my last thread too.

* I am not without opinions, but I come here to share my hobby which is the intellectual challenge of games (and history); I am not a warmonger nor pacifist, but I come here to escape the 365/24/7 atmosphere of hate.

* I think this board is the property of BFC, and this behavior does nothing to further the sale of their games; which should, at least, be a concern for them if not for you.

Thank you.

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Chuck,

The smallest effective unit that has independent existence on the map is the division.

Smaller units exist, but not as independent counters, but attachments which can be made.  I wish I could answer your question better, but I am still learning.

In game parlance, the are SU = support units.

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1 minute ago, markshot said:

The smallest effective unit that has independent existence on the map is the division.

Thank you I am interested but there are only so many games I can play. 

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Chuck,

There are a few short scenarios.  When I say short I mean in terms of turns like 16.  Full Barbarossa is 215 (one week alternating sides).

I spent many years arguing strongly against TBS/IGOUGO games and developing with Panther Games.  I think it is worth looking into (but only after the next patch).  The game works via intelligent agents.  So, many units does not mean slow and plodding.  It's a great a unique system.

It looks complex, but really you only need a few days for the basics, and you can play with ATTACK/MOVE/DEFEND and taking the default parameters.  A good plans is far more important that lots of finesse of a poor plan.

Dave,

I too am finding long learning curves hard despite retirement and sheltering at home.  I don't think it is odd.  I also take MD classes, physics, and whatever in my spare time.

As we age we decline in 3 cognitive areas:

* Executive function - the ability to construct large elaborate plans.

* Calculation speed - I had joined a chess site, but could not compete.  I had the right solutions just too slow.  With me being 2X as old as most.  And it showed, because they compute metrics.

* The ability to form new memories.  It is easier to remember what you learned in high school than last week.  It ain't retirement; it's biology.

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4 minutes ago, markshot said:

It looks complex, but really you only need a few days for the basics, and you can play with ATTACK/MOVE/DEFEND and taking the default parameters.  A good plans is far more important that lots of finesse of a poor plan.

 

The complexity is in the underlying mechanics, isnt it? It's easy to play, hard to play well. Of course I am still operating with WitE as my reference point, but take something like supply and logistics for example. The rules here are complex. Matter of fact I thought this was handled superbly by WitE. It's easy to push the counters around, but if the player fails to understand logistics and supply, it will take just a couple of turns before those counters cannot be pushed, as they are out of gas.

Good hunting commander

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5 minutes ago, markshot said:

It ain't retirement; it's biology.

Looks like a forum for geriatrics I am 71 and retired also. Good thing we live here a pre-covid way of life. We just can't board an airplane. But a large battle of CM takes me a few days. It is almost like work. 

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16 minutes ago, markshot said:

 

Dave,

I too am finding long learning curves hard despite retirement and sheltering at home.  I don't think it is odd.  I also take MD classes, physics, and whatever in my spare time.

As we age we decline in 3 cognitive areas:

* Executive function - the ability to construct large elaborate plans.

* Calculation speed - I had joined a chess site, but could not compete.  I had the right solutions just too slow.  With me being 2X as old as most.  And it showed, because they compute metrics.

* The ability to form new memories.  It is easier to remember what you learned in high school than last week.  It ain't retirement; it's biology.

Yes. And I have things to keep me sharp. I enjoy crosswords, I have a model railroad I now have more time to work on, I play piano, I play AT the guitar ( I have 2 just need to work on it), a couple of telescopes, ham radio, I like to read, and my wife and I enjoy doing other things together. I won’t be bored in retirement. 😀

From your description of your background it sounds like you’ll have fun with it. I enjoyed WITW too. There is a whole sequence of staging, planning and prepping for amphibious invasions  I found that a lot of fun. Work, but the anticipation of getting to the point where you get to the “go” for invasion keeps interest. Haven’t played that in a while because I can’t get text to cooperate. All the menus and buttons have too large text that runs into the next  weirdly,WITE is fine, no matter how I fiddle with graphics and scaling.

Dave

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Landser,

WITE2 ... it is quite clear that much thought went into the game, manual, and UI.  If it is slow to play, it is due to it's traditional nature of having push every counter around or at best small stacks.

With CO2, you might play the Germans by giving orders at the Corps or Army level.  But CO2 cannot handle so many units over more than about 1 month of battle over such large space.  I think that is why we never went East.  It is harder to find small battles, and players want to go East to play the big battles.  I did analysis for Panther and the engine more or less scales smoothly from 20 units to about 500 (Battle of Bulge Scenarios) on existing hardware.  So, it is less work, but all that AI simulation of commanding other officers, they, themselves, delegate orders burns lots of CPU.  (Like CM does not scale smoothly.  Big scenarios are a lot more work, because it is not an agent based model.)

Sadly Moore's Law is dead.  Processing speed is not doubling every 18 months.  It began to slow towards 2010.  Now, it is still true if you count cores, but few games except chess engines are truly multi-threaded using all cores and showing linear improvement on 16 cores.  So, gaming industry is somewhat constrained like wargames in adding ever greater scope for our battles.

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There are two aging hard limits:

(1)  Cell replication.  Our genes cannot transcribe to the very end of the DNA strand.  Thus, we have telemeres.  Dead space at the end of the gene to allow transcription without error, but they keep getting shorter.  At some point, cell replication stops.  For humans this is at 50 replications.

(2)  It was thought we are unable to create new nerves cells.  The latest research shows this is not true.  But the factor that permits nerve growth is most present not just when playing games or working out problems.  It is actually a combination of aerobic exercise and brain activity.  A study comparing treadmill exercise and hikers, showed that the hikers generated much more new growth factor.  Why?  Because hiking is both aerobic, but very cognitive for maintaining balance.  So, bottom line is you need to do your PBEM on a cardiac cycle if you really want to stay sharp.  :)

(let me look up the name of the factor)

See BDNF (Brain Derived Neurotropic Factor)

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8 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Poms, Dings, Slopes, Square heads, Yanks, Canucks that's what I would call you last year. This year it is British, Italians, Asian, Germans, Americans, and Canadians. What people call me is none of my business. Welcome to the politically correct world, some words are acceptable in some versions of English and unacceptable in others. I won't write here what they call Japanese People in an Australian RSL Club. After all the WW2 Veterans are now Centenarians leave the old guys in peace. 

Oh, piss off already. Are you really that dense to understand that certain terms just should NOT be used for PLAINLY obvious reasons?

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On 6/19/2021 at 7:42 AM, Erwin said:

We all abbreviate things all the time.  Please let's not get into political correctness forcing us to spell out every word fully.  Some people will always be offended by something.  I am offended by many things too.  I hold my tongue cos I know it's not intentional.

Yes, people abbreviate things all of the time. But they don't do it on this forum when that abbreviation is also considered a derogatory term. Talking about the British and calling them Brits is not a derogatory term, for instance. Surely you are aware of this. 

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2 hours ago, markshot said:

For those of you who have nothing to say about WITE2, GG series, or Games ... please withdraw from my thread and take it outside (John I am asking for you not to lock the thread but just do some admin stuff).

I hadn't planned to as I didn't see it a a thread going off the rails. I see it as one person being inappropriate.  I hope pointing it out to them is all that needs to happen so that the thread doesn't go off the rails. 

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8 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Poms, Dings, Slopes, Square heads, Yanks, Canucks that's what I would call you last year. This year it is British, Italians, Asian, Germans, Americans, and Canadians. What people call me is none of my business. Welcome to the politically correct world, some words are acceptable in some versions of English and unacceptable in others. I won't write here what they call Japanese People in an Australian RSL Club. After all the WW2 Veterans are now Centenarians leave the old guys in peace. 

really just last year?  Recognizing bigotry is somehow "politically correct"  Okay sign me up as being PC cause I hate frickin obnoxious arrogant racists.  Racist slurs aren't acceptable in ANY form of English. 

Markshot, you may have started the thread, but there are forum standards that apply on every thread.  I am sorry yours has had to deal with this, but it is what it is.  I have not asked that anyone be blocked or have any other action taken, I have simply asked they stop using certain terminology.  It seems that is too much for certain members of this community who'd prefer to continue to behave in a manner that reflects the worst in us rather than show a modicum of respect towards others.

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7 hours ago, sburke said:

I hate frickin obnoxious arrogant racists. 

Here is where I live. Welcome to visit but because of Covid you can't we are Covid free. By the way my sister in law Reiko is Japanese too and she doesn't mind. Now return to topic and don't try to impose your local values and American English on the rest of us. 

jap.jpg jap2.jpg

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12 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Here is where I live. Welcome to visit but because of Covid you can't we are Covid free. By the way my sister in law Reiko is Japanese too and she doesn't mind. Now return to topic and don't try to impose your local values and American English on the rest of us. 

jap.jpg jap2.jpg

oh yeah common usage certainly means it isn't derogatory at all.  That would never happen.  Glad your sister in law can overlook the bigotry.  yep certainly more proof.

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I had my say and racism in any shape or form is against the law here. Good manners are when you send him a private post when somebody offends you. You however try to shout it from the rooftops. That is how it is done in Asia quietly on the golfcourse when they settle differences. 

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17 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

I had my say and racism in any shape or form is against the law here. Good manners are when you send him a private post when somebody offends you. You however try to shout it from the rooftops. That is how it is done in Asia quietly on the golfcourse when they settle differences. 

says the guy with a Japanese sister in law that refers to Asians as slopes...last year.  Yes we must be gentlemanly when addressing as we don't want our white sensibilities to be offended...  

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

Asians as slopes...last year.

I live half of my retirement in Asia over there I am a Bule. Only white people find the words racist as a rule Asians and Africans don't mind. Learn some languages and find out. The word slope was common usage during the 60's and 70's hardly anyone is using it now. Stay on topic Yank. The Indians invented that word, stands for Jan-Kees common names of the Dutch Settlers of what is now New York. But that word is not racist neither is when people abbreviate Japanese.  

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1 minute ago, chuckdyke said:

I live half of my retirement in Asia over there I am a Bule. Only white people find the words racist as a rule Asians and Africans don't mind. Learn some languages and find out. The word slope was common usage during the 60's and 70's hardly anyone is using it now. Stay on topic Yank. The Indians invented that word, stands for Jan-Kees common names of the Dutch Settlers of what is now New York. But that word is not racist neither is when people abbreviate Japanese.  

Keep going, I won't mind it a bit when you get banned.

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2 minutes ago, sburke said:

Keep going, I won't mind it a bit when you get banned.

Lost for words you decided to get off topic. Suggestion, send a private mail when somebody upsets you. 

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10 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Lost for words you decided to get off topic. Suggestion, send a private mail when somebody upsets you. 

suggestion, keep your racist BS and excuses to yourself.   Question - did you send me a PM about this topic before injecting your half baked rationalizations?  I'll save everyone the suspense.  No.  you did EXACTLY what you are criticizing me for doing.  Hypocrite much?

 

and for what it is worth  - In 2011, after the term's offhand use in a March 26 article appearing in The Spectator ("white-coated Jap bloke"), the Minister of the Japanese Embassy in London protested that "most Japanese people find the word 'Japs' offensive, irrespective of the circumstances in which it is used".[16]

Care to educate me some more on how Japanese feel?

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Yo, Dudes, take a breath.  I would hate to see if you blocked.  Because I would lose the good content you add to the forum.  Purely selfish reason, yes, but perhaps a good time to walk away for a few minutes.

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27 minutes ago, sburke said:

Care to educate me some more on how Japanese feel?

Australian POW's were very tasty and good eating according to Japanese soldiers who were made prisoner. This information can be found at the Australian war memorial museum in Canberra. You shout your wisdom of the rooftops civil people send each other a mail. You won't bother and in your case I won't bother either. 

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